What Causes Latency?, Trying to make sure I have no Latency Options

[manexmachina]

I'm setting up from scratch and the number one complaint I had about my old system (like 6 years ago) was massinve playing latency. I hit a note on the piano and by the time the virtual instrument (sample cell at the time) played back, it was very delayed. I'm not going to erase 20 some odd years of practice and get used to that.

So! how do I avoid it? Is it the software, the hardware, the VST, the audio input, the midi input? What are good combinations? Can I avoid latency on a Powerbook? I'd love to use a 17" G4, but would be willing to buy a dual proc. if necessary.

Specific equipment recommendations are helpful. Preferably recommendations that mention which software they work with best. (Please don't make this into a which software is best thread though, that's not my concern_/

thanks in advance!

[Synthetic]

there is always going to be some latency but today... most computers and midi interfaces have gotten it down to such a small increment that its barely noticeable. OSX is supposed to have one of the lowest latency issues as its midi is built-in to the core system. So if you have a g4 at least... look for OS 10.2.x and OX apps for best results. Emagic has a couple nice midi interfaces that also use their own technology to help midi timing with Emagic apps like Logic.

[manexmachina]

thanks for that information about the advantage of OSX.

I would love to love logic. I am fortunate enough to know someone who uses each of the major applications and I wanted to like logic so much, but when it came time for me to try it... I just didn't. i still go there and try to convince myself to love it becaue I believe in apple's future and their apps future... but i don't find it fun and for some reason that means something to me. My plan is to use hardware which might be useable for any of the platforms... is there any such hardware? Strangely enough, I thought I would end up loving DP, but it's just got sooooo many windows, i'm a little mixed on it too.

Anyone experience latency issues with a digi 002?

[rickenbacker]

Whatever you use, whatever hardware or software, there is always going to be some latency - even if it's only a few milliseconds.

But like Synthetic says, today's computers and software have got it down to virtually nothing and OS X is particularly good at it. Definitely get the latest version of X and apps specially designed for it - Logic 6, Cubase SX, DP4, Pro Tools LE etc. Using a dual processor G4 with these apps can't hurt, either. Saying that, on my 600MHz G3 iBook I can play synths in Reason with very little latency, so you don't have to spend the earth to get a responsive set-up.

As for Logic, I know what you mean about not loving it. But 6 is the best version yet (well, durrr) and even though I like working in the SX environment, the program is less stable and so I end up coming back to Logic anyway. Basically, if Logic looked like SX, I'd be as happy as a clam - and it's getting there (I'm talking to you, Mr Channel Strip in the arrange window). Get some audio slicing in there and we're done.

It's probably worth while persevering with Logic, for the reasons you state.

[manexmachina]

What do you mean by audio slicing needing improvement in logic? My most experience is in ProTools which I used from version 1 where the audio editing is obviously quite strong... would I be missing this? In SX/N2 - the audio editing did not seem problematic. In DP it made no sense to me, even when shown.

[Synthetic]

audio editing and slicing is much easier in ProTools than Logic. Logic works a bit odd with audio regions compared to ProTools because to get down to sample view you must open audio region in new window rather than editing right in arrange window. I usually do my audio sequencing in ProTools LE and do my midi sequencing in Logic. To me this makes more sense as Logic handles midi better and ProTools handles audio better in my opinion.

[krisg]

How about good ol' Digital Performer from MOTU?
I've been working with that soft for years and I find it
very easy to use. MOTU is also known to make some of
the best midi interfaces on the market. And the audio latency
with the latest motu 424PCI cards is almost non existent.

[manexmachina]

I was pretty gung ho for performer at first, especially when I saw the mach five and thought a homogenus solution would be the way to go. But... when I had a chance to play with it at my friends studio - even with him loving it and answering questions, I wasn't sure I liked it more than SX... I didn't have a block against it like Logic (which I may eventually use, but will probably wait until Apple redesigns the interface totally).

I may need to give DP a look. my biggest reservation about SX is that it can seem a little bit hacked together at times. I don't really mind the idea of switching software, that's why i want to make sure I get hardware which will work for anything.

but back onto the track of latency - the 424PCI cards would require a tower, right? so a tower is the only way to go to get the lowest latency?

[krisg]

absolutely, the near zero latency on the latest motu hardware is due to a mix DSP on the card. A fire rack doesn't have one. But you can still get a pretty good resuult with the FW like 828 etc. You just have set the buffer size to very small, like 256.

[dixiechicken]

All audio apps mentioned before in this thread are very capable apps, with various strong and weak points.
I'd suggest you pick the one/two or three, ( as it were ) that you feel most comfortable with & learn it/them real well.

I believe creativity and workflow is much more important in long run than the actual tools you use.
So choose the tools with this in mind rather than technical aspects.
( I dont mean you should disregard technical aspects altogether )

To me Pro Tools & Digital performer feels the most comfortable. I was long time user of Opcodes Vision
way back, from version 1.0.3 to 3.0.1, might explain why I feel comfortable with DP.

Cheers: Dixiechicken