Mastering/pre-mastering On Computer, hints |
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Sat 27 Jul 2002, 10:11
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Moderator In Chief (MIC)
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ioGirl Jul 21 2002, 21:53 QUOTE I now use Nuendo for putting tracks down. All midi. Audio for vocals. When there's a need, I slice and dice audio in Recycle. But yes, I'm looking for a complete solution. I'm happy with my setup except where it comes to mastering. I've got MegaZigaGigs of songs that I'd like to mater. I suspect that the problem is more so my skill level but if you personaly know of a software that makes the process more intuitive, let it know that I'm out to get it and that i'll probably even give it a bad name. I came across Sonic Studio but don't have much info on it. Pyramix and others as well, but they're all PC apps. Is this all overkill and should I just master the mastering skills, or will a software package really make a difference? Yukulele Jul 22 2002, 21:22 QUOTE Unfortunately, you can't do a "real" mastering with your computer, untill you have all the very expensive equipment needed for this kind of work. But you can do pretty cool pre-masterings ;-) Have a look to T-Racks (from ik-multimedia) for an integrated solution, or look at some articles about multi-band compression and dynamic eqs, and play with the nuendo vst plugins, or others. What's needed here is a good hear. damann Jul 23 2002, 06:57 QUOTE i'm biased, but logic audio or whatever apple are going to re-brand it as. ioGirl: you say you use nuendo for midi and vocals. on this basis, logic, cubase, and performer are a more logical choice of application. whenever i've used cubase it's crashed, that's why i use logic! logic and dp have some GREAT mastering plugins. T-racks is also very good, if you're gentle with it! Yukelele is right, ultimately, your "master" will be as good as your "ears". at the end of the day, what works for YOU, works for you... ioGirl Jul 23 2002, 17:20 QUOTE Thanks much guys Now have T-Racks. Will cover all the nuances of it. May be back to pester you guys. Will look into multi-band compression and dynamic eqs. Now, about a good set of ears...where can I pick up a pair at a good price? damann Ecrit le Jul 27 2002, 05:20 QUOTE on the subject of eq/compression. (sorry lpm, also too lazy right now!) (spank spank spank) QUOTE iogirl, maybe start a thread in audio/hardware entitled "mastering tips" or"eq/compression". in the mean time, you should set aside an hour or two to checkout uaudio.com. there IS a good book, a friend has it, i'll get the name for you... Now you can digress ok
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Replies
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Sun 28 Jul 2002, 19:11
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there are five main points here. parametric eq...especially in the 12k kind of range. a little peak limiting or as they call it, "brick wall compression". stereo widening, be careful, check the mix in mono! soft clipping (which is a type of digital compression) to make your mix LOUDER than anybody elses' multi band, frequency concious compression, if you really want to "fry" the mix. i get the feeling that this thread is 'gonna be popular, so i won't bother elaborating yet.plenty more to say...
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one for all and all for one...
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Wed 31 Jul 2002, 06:28
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um...why is everything in French?
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Wed 31 Jul 2002, 06:42
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2 Questions:
1. Why is "Mastering" in hardware? Can it not be done correctly with software?
2. Can you guys list what it is that "Makes a Mix" (What makes a particular genre) also does a Mastering Master usually work in a particular genre? If so, is this changing with all the remixing going on?
I hope this doesn't appear off topic but it would be cool to approach mastering by genre. You know touch on the subtleties.
(I know...basics first. Working on that. )
ioGirl
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Wed 31 Jul 2002, 14:34
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Moderator In Chief (MIC)
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QUOTE i get the feeling that this thread is 'gonna be popular, so i won't bother elaborating yet.plenty more to say... Teaser!
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Sun 4 Aug 2002, 22:14
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SuperHero
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QUOTE (ioGirl @ Jul 31 2002, 07:42) 1. Why is "Mastering" in hardware? Can it not be done correctly with software? Maybe for a safest & traditionnal reason? Theorically, with a high-end audio interface, and a strong computer, you sure could process as a Finalizer do. But i don't know of any software able to do this on the mac, do you? ie. dynamic filtering, etc. TDM systems have such mastering plugins (names, someone?), but i never got a chance to "hear" them. Anyone here? Maybe a dedicated real time mastering software for mac would be a hit? Bye.
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Tue 27 Aug 2002, 23:36
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Thanks for all the info. Discovered that I have the waves demo...it was given out at an audio expo here in NY. It's definitely something to invest in.
A question to all the Mastering Pros:
What are the major Mastering Faux Pas to avoid?/the things that can make or break a mix?
ioGirl
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Wed 28 Aug 2002, 02:17
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"..Overall, Logic is the best software for me. But I still use Protools for the final touch. A lot is to with plugins and the algorithm..."
Above is a quote from the "best sequencer" Poll. There were many similar remarks about Pro Tools being the tool for Mastering....but if it's about plug-ins, does it matter if you're using Waves in PT or any other app?...or if you're using TDM plug-ins in PT or Logic?
ioGirl
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Wed 28 Aug 2002, 06:12
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I think the reason people talk about mastering in ProTools is because it use to have all the best plugins. Now with TC Powercore and Universal Audio UAD-1 cards and also some high end VST plugs (Waves, PSP etc...) it doesn't really have so much advantage. I know some people who think that Pro Tools sounds better than Logic; different algorithms etc... I also know former ProTools preachers who have sold their systems and are now using Logic with RME gear and have never looked back. Don't forget ProTools will obviously sound better with the TDM or HD versions (US$10000+) than with a Digi 001 with it's version of ProTools Software. Mastering is an art in itself, having and knowing how to use the tools is of course necessary, however learning how to use your ears is the most important thing. For some great value plugins (much cheaper than Waves) try http://www.pspaudioware.com/Some info on mastering. beginner's guide to mastering at: http://www.computermusic.co.uk/tutorial/ma.../mastering1.aspand a guide by Bob Katz (The Secret of the Mastering Engineer) at http://www.tcelectronic.com/static.asp?page=bob_katzMatt
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Wed 28 Aug 2002, 11:42
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Mastering software is like everything else with computer music - everyone has their favourite apps and any magic tool that gets universal approval and is coveted by everyone is likely to cost hundreds, maybe thousands, of pounds (or dollars or euros or whatever). The more people you ask, the more confused you can get!
The Waves plug-ins are well-regarded. I use them with Logic and I also use the T-Racks set, which is cheaper but still very good and easy to use (IMHO). For the money, both of these do a professional job to my ears.
I don't think it really matters what you use, to be honest. If it's at least halfway decent and you know how to use it and you've had a lot of practice with mastering your music, you'll get pleasing results.
Format's links are a good introduction to the subject and I'm sure there are thousands more out there. You could also try the book "Basic Mastering" by Paul White (Sanctuary Publishing, about £5) for a good explanation of what it is you should be doing.
If it sounds right, it IS right!
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Thu 29 Aug 2002, 09:42
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If i'm mastering a bunch of songs for a CD i put the songs in toast or jam and in the right order and create a disk immage.Then i open it up in Peak VST.The trak markers or index points are visible and i do fade ins @outs and time between songs all non destructve. I can also compare songs for continuity and level so as to get a feel and flow for the finished CD.I like Peak better than Logic for audio editing.The Waves plugs are great but dont overdo loudness. As a rule digital is the go for corrective eq and analogue for sweetening.I use an avalon 747 for this and it makes my mixes sound more lush. Ive also used a pair of quad ( british valve hi fi preamps and much cheaper than the avalon) to get nice or over driven sound.I have a budget monitoring setup that workes well.I use a sansui AU555 hi fi amp.They are good and at the back you can bypass the pre-amp and plug directly into the power amp stage.(purer signal).I use B@W 601 hi fi speakers.They handle the punchy sounds well @ are accurate but lack a bit in the mids.I check the mids with Mordant Short MS 10s .On an old mac i run a spectrum analyser and compare Bernie Grundman or other professionaly mastered CDs to the job i'm doing.I enjoy mastering but have to work within a budget as we do so i hope these tips help
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qaws12
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Thu 29 Aug 2002, 23:41
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Thanks for the link! Did you find it from 4 posts above. Matt
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Thu 29 Aug 2002, 23:46
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For more tips and tricks try http://www.sospubs.co.uk/and search "Mastering" Matt
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Fri 30 Aug 2002, 02:03
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Here is Bob Katz's web site. www.digido.com He used to work at Chesky Records,they do high resoludion,(ie 24 bit 96k digital recordings) for the audiophile marketThey also have a good reference CD .Bob has his own company called Digital Domain.
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qaws12
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Sat 31 Aug 2002, 11:00
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So much incredible info. Checked it all out.
RE: The Mastering Genius...
I do agree as with any art, that it's ultimately not the instrument but how the artist uses it.
( It's not as much the paint as it is how the painter sees....in Mastering, what the artist hears)
This in mind, can anyone point to the Michaelangelo of Mixing? Are there those that are admired by the Mix Masters as Mastering Genius?
ioGirl
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Mon 2 Sep 2002, 12:21
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What is that peculiar backround image on Bob Ludwig's site? http://www.gatewaymastering.com/gwclients_list.aspOh...that's just his list of clients. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for the names. Will check out all these guys. Starting with Bob. Pretty insightful article: http://www.digitalprosound.com/2002/06_jun.../bob_ludwig.htmIt's unfortunate that industry has so much impact on art...but I guess that's life in a commercial world. My next question would be; "Are there guys out there with artistic integrity...that could care less what the industry wants?"...but I'd rather go and remix all my stuff...you know, make it real loud. ioCandy
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Mon 2 Sep 2002, 15:45
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I was truly just being silly with that "integrity remark". Especially regarding Bob Ludwig. A true artist grows to greater heights within confines such as these.
With Mixing/Mastering especially for Pop culture/Mass America (and beyond), I would imagine that these confines are a given.
When we're in that ivory tower we can turn the music down. But ivory is so expensive....
So let's crank stuff up and let the SMASHING begin.
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Tue 3 Sep 2002, 04:36
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Talk about unsung heroes. These guys are all so impressive.
Not feelin' so good about T-Racks anymore.
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Fri 6 Sep 2002, 20:51
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It's the next day. Just wakin' up. No dinosaur hangover today. Giving T-Racks a break. Stayin' on the wagon this time. After Barney, I said I'd never trust another Purple dinosaur anyway. I don't know what happened.
Can anyone give pointers on mastering for different genres. What are some things to take note of for each. ie Jazz will have a much more dynamic range than hip-hop or pop. How are each of the genres best approached? (Jazz, Hip-Hop, R&B, Rock, Pop, electronic etc...)
Also are there guys that have a feel for and master better in one particular genre?
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Sat 7 Sep 2002, 02:12
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oh yeah....
Is mastering electronic music different that the other genres. Easier perhaps? more/less challenging?
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Sat 7 Sep 2002, 13:53
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as i said, for hip-hop/ r&b check out herb powers. definitely numero uno. bob ludwig and bernie grundman for everything else bar electronic stuff. electronic/programmed music IS easier, on the basis that it's less dynamic than music created with real instruments. people tend to apply more extreme eq's and compression to modern programmed music (because they can), the bass wars are raging out there! pop is all about the finaliser (multi-band, frequency concious, compressor/eq), LOADS of middle. these kind of mixes tend to sound a bit too fried for me. most modern mixes tend to have rather large bottoms! and the golden rule of course is... there's no such thing as a vocal that's too loud. sweetening, or emphasis as it's known, is an important area. in london, we have a home-grown hip-hop/r&b/drum&bass hybrid that's by far the most popular stuff at the moment. try and check some out, the bass is everything. i guarantee you that you will not have heard this much bass anywhere before, and this is the latest flavour of pop music here!!!
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one for all and all for one...
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