Multi Track Midi Recorder?, Midi, old system Options

[IRONSLAVE]

Ok. So I have a G4 laptop I got a hold of. I also have an M-Audio E-Keys 37 USB midi Controller. I am totally new to this. I am looking for a good setup i can use to record a multi track midi song. I tried using garage band but it's not working out for me. I am using ableton live 7 LE and I like it, but my computer overloads quickly and it is a little confusing

All i want to do is use this USB controller to make some midi songs.

software instruments would be great

Stylings for drum n bass, 80;s electronica, and techno would be my forte.

some small Fx like Echo, Delay, Chorus,and Distortion would be awesome...

I am a guitar player, so this is going to be an interesting experience.

Something I can get ahold of as far as being able to download would be great as well because I will be unable to accept delivered items for the next 4 months as i will be traveling.
If it would work on an intel CPU i would be grateful so I can use it at home when i return.

I was trying to find a copy of tracktion 1.5 but I am un sucessful

I was peeking at Cubase 4 and it has a 16 track Midi Recorder.... could i Use this with my USB piano? would i need a way to use Midi Inturements outside of the program?

Can anyone guide me in a general direction with the keyboard? I havent even recieved it yet and will get it on tuesday.

This post has been edited by IRONSLAVE: Sun 31 May 2009, 23:03

[deaconblue]

Hey Ironslave,

Not sure what I can recommend as a start up application beyond the two you have listed already. Both GarageBand and Ableton Live will do what you are wanting to do.

What problem are you having in GarageBand? I know the first thing that pops out at you in GB is the 'loops' option. And while this can be a good thing, it can also be a bit distracting, especially when building a song using loops is not what you're after.

For Ableton you'll need to make sure you have enough RAM (depending on the PowerBook you have [there are a few varieties of G4s]) you can use between 1GB and 2GB of RAM. For your Harddrive, it should have at least 20% free that you do not use in addition to the space you need for your apps, files and the music you're creating.

The keyboard will work as long as you have the drivers loaded (for the M-Audio Keystations I believe they are CoreAudio compatible and will not require any drivers) and the application you are using is CoreAudio aware (most modern Mac compatible DAWs are).

In the interim, what are the issues you're running into with GarageBand? If you can fix those they you won't need to purchase anything and I believe you can use the LE version of Ableton within GarageBand so you could have the best of both (depending, again on the hardware configuration of your PowerBook).

Lots of variables to consider, but the first two are what PowerBook G4 do you have and what is the configuration? (Speed Ghz, RAM GB, HDD GB); what issues are you running into in GB?

peace.

[FastEddy]

Assuming your g4 laptop is not brand new ...

Run the Disk Repair program (in hard drive / applications / utilities / Disk Utility ) ... run it and just repair the permissions on your drive, then do the verify routine ... often this frees up a whole bunch of questions and resources ... Once a month is usually more than enough.

And before you spend a bunch of cash on more ram (although that is always a good idea) you might google "mac performance" and try some of the simple fixes that remove a lot of dreck on your hard drive, etc, etc ...

Have faith in your USB MIDI controller ... it can even write sheet music with the right software

[kayj_prod]

Ditto; I'd ask what issues you're having with GarageBand. Software instruments: check, FX: check, easy to use: check, plug your USB keyboard in and it'll work: check.

I've done plenty of stuff with GB that isn't loop based, but I'd have thought that if you're into DnB and Electronica, loops are going to be pretty essential. Of course you should be thinking beyond the Apple Loops supplied and also look at editing the software sounds to make them your own.

[mortalengines]

Hmmm.....you ask many questions.....I'll try to answer as best as I can. Garage Band is one of the easier programs to get started with....the fact that it's free with any new mac makes it a great bargain. I learned it in something like an afternoon to help my daughter get started making music. Was there any one thing that you had a hard time understanding? Different programs come easy (or not so) to different people. I use the full version of Live and, I am not sure how much you would really like the full version or not. Its odd GUI makes it a little difficult to wrap your head around at first. I hear good things about a program/sequencer called Reaper and it is only 60 dollars to download.....which leads me answer to your next question. ALL of these programs are available to buy online and download. ALL of these programs have a demo available that is free to download as well. Google any of the popular software titles for Mac: Logic, Digital Performer, Live, Cubase, and you will be well on your way to downloading a demo and making up your own mind about how you want to start. All of the above programs have similar, yet very different ways of approaching audio/midi recording....all of them are very good at what they do as well. If you are really just wanting to work with Midi and virtual instruments then you may want to take a good look at Reason 4.0. It doesn't really handle audio, except as samples to be triggered by the NNXT sampler module or the Dr Rex player (two of Reason's instruments). That simplifies things greatly. Working with audio and audio interfaces can get very complicated sometimes. Propellerhead Software (Reason's developer), will be releasing an audio recording platform called Record very soon. Many are getting excited about it. You may want to have a look at that as well.

You must be looking at the LE version of Cubase 4. The full version offers midi tracks in the hundreds probably.... I tried using a Cubase LE program that came bundled with the sound card on my old PC and almost ran away screaming. I understand the newer versions are much easier to get in to. Try the demo. The full version of Cubase has a TON of virtual instruments and effects. So does Logic, DP, and Live (Live's offering of instruments is pretty pitiful compared to the others but, as a program it is pretty excellent overall). All of these will work with the midi keyboard that you have on the way. As soon as you get the keyboard, install the drivers that come on the disc included with it, and proceed immediately to M-audio's site to make sure you have the most up to date drivers on hand. You will save yourself so many headaches if you just do things like check system compatibility before buying/installing new software, and making sure you have the most up to date software available. Don't plug in the keyboard until all the drivers and updates are successfully installed. Once the drivers are installed, plug in the keyboard and go to the Audio/midi utility which is something like (Macintosh HD/Applications/Audio Midi setup....you will need to create a new profile for your instrument there. This should be easy to do as your computer has the drivers, and knows what is plugged in to it. Then open up whatever sequencing program you will be using, and make sure that you go to the "preferences" drop down menu for the App. From there it should be farily easy since you usually only need to select your keyboard from the MIDI prefereces section and make sure that it's turned ON.

Your G4 should work alright but, keep in mind that it's getting a little "long in the tooth" and as it is, it will only JUST meet minimum requrements very soon on many platforms. You will probably want to try to get as much RAM installed that you can possibly afford. Like, try to have around 2 GB of RAM installed, and more if it's possible. Reason is probably the least taxing on your computer's CPU compared to the others, giving it another "plus" in your case.


Good luck and have fun!


www.reverbnation.com/mortalengines



This post has been edited by mortalengines: Tue 2 Jun 2009, 08:17

[ckb]

Just so that everyone can help you better, can you tell us:

-- what part of Garage Band is not working for you?

-- what part of Live is confusing?

Quick thoughts just for consideration: Garage Band is often mistakenly written off as a toy, but it's actually pretty capable. As for Live, yes, it has a lot going on, but it can be as easy or as complex as your needs dictate.

Just so that everyone can help you better, can you tell us:

-- what part of Garage Band is not working for you?

-- what part of Live is confusing?

Quick thoughts just for consideration: Garage Band is often mistakenly written off as a toy, but it's actually pretty capable. As for Live, yes, it has a lot going on, but it can be as easy or as complex as your needs dictate.

Oops... sorry everybody. I replied straight from the email notification and thus didn't realize that a half-dozen people had already said the same thing. I know better now.

But we sure have consensus, anyway!

[IRONSLAVE]

Well, The reason I avoid garageband is because The interface sucks.... It's too simple for me. there are some things I would like to do that I cant get garage band to do as far as track editing with effects. It is a demanding program as well and I suffer from latency issues when I record with Guitar.

With Ableton it takes a bit of work to make the computer start to max out.

The confusing things about ableton Is simple stuff. the most difficult part is when somtimes I add a track with an insturement I get no audio. If i save and reopen it will work again ?

Is there a Landscape view where I can see seperate tracks? Like garage band.

[mortalengines]

Ok....I see where you are coming from now. I don't use GB but, the online help is pretty good....should you choose to give it another try, refer to it often and if it still gives yo trouble on a specific issue, then check back on this forum (there are plenty of GB users here) or one of about a gajillion other forums specifically related to GB. Just google "Apple Garage Band User Group" and see what turns up. The same works for Ableton, really. Sometimes if you type your question specific to GarageBand or Live directly into Googles search window, it will find the right forum and you don't even have to ask the question.....it's already been asked and answered. The fact is, I don't really use this, or any other forums much for my own questions anymore. I just google it and usually, I can find a YouTube tutorial or a specific thread on the subject super quick. Man, I love the internet!


Latency issues can be resolved in both Ableton and GB by using the Preferences option in the dropdown menu under the Apps name. The rest is pretty self explanatory. Click on AUDIO and start playing with your Buffer Size. As the Buffer Size increases, so does latency. Decreasing the buffer size will reduce latency but, may cause issues later when you are working with multiple tracks with plug ins and virtual instruments.....so you want to play around with that until you find what works best for you in certain situations. What kind of Audio Interface are you working with? You may have some latency workaround solutions via your sound card's "direct monitoring" option....assuming it has one.

As far as recording with Live. What version are you using? Is it one of the total starter versions that comes bundled with an audio or midi interface? Recording options (among other things) are pretty limited in those, and I am not even sure if what I am about to tell you would apply to what you have. So if you are gonna purse Live, go ahead and purchase the cheapest retail version of Live LE (it's $139 US for the download version, and worth it) .

Anyway, once in Live, you need to check back into your audio preferences window (described above) and make sure that your interface is one of the drop down options for "input device". If so, select it to be your primary interface. You should also (before even starting Live) make sure that your interface is even selected to be your primary input and output device by the Mac. Go To Macintosh HD/Applications/Utilities/AudioMidi Setup and make sure that your interface is selected as a input/output source. From there, once you are ready to record, just open a track and check in its little "Audio from" drop down menu to see if your interface is available. If so, just make sure you have whatever channel you are recording with selected and make sure you hit the little red button for record at the bottom (thus "arming" the track). You won't have to worry about actually recording anything until you click in one of the little clip windows in the track.

If you want Live to work like a standard DAW recorder with a linear timeline, you can get to that window (the Arrangement View) by hitting the TAB button on your computer's keyboard. That window is a little different but the options are more or less the same as the Session View. I guess that in all of this....if you decide to work with Live, there is a tutorial that comes with the software that explains all of this in a way that is even better than how I just did. You should just commit a couple or three hours to going through that tutorial as it is REALLY helpful.


www.reverbnation.com/mortalengines


www.myspace.com/mortal_engines

[ckb]

Well, The reason I avoid garageband is because The interface sucks.... It's too simple for me. there are some things I would like to do that I cant get garage band to do as far as track editing with effects. It is a demanding program as well and I suffer from latency issues when I record with Guitar.

With Ableton it takes a bit of work to make the computer start to max out.

The confusing things about ableton Is simple stuff. the most difficult part is when somtimes I add a track with an insturement I get no audio. If i save and reopen it will work again ?

Is there a Landscape view where I can see seperate tracks? Like garage band.

I'd reiterate everything that mortalengine was just very kind to say. I've got to be honest with you; if mortalengine weren't so polite, he (or she, don't know) might have simply written, RTFM. That's short for "read the f... manual." I'm not saying that to be mean but to give you a heads-up. Some veteran forum users get cranky when a new user comes on and asks a question that's definitely addressed in the manual/help and/or has been answered on the forum a dozen times over the years. Most forums have an "etiquette" posting that advises users to first make sure their question hasn't already been addressed before starting a new thread.

I know that it's not very fun or sexy to sit on your duff and read, but speaking as someone who is very comfortable figuring out new software (I've written software documentation for a living for much of my adult life), I used to not bother reading the manual if I could figure it out myself. I treated the manual as an as-needed reference book.

But I ran across a David Pogue article in which he said (I paraphrase), "No matter what, always read the manual. I can guarantee you will learn something new, even if you're a veteran user." (If you don't know that name, Pogue is responsible for many of the outstanding "Missing Manual" books and lots of other excellent instructional writing.)

Since then I've always read the manuals, and it makes a huge difference. Huge.

Both of the programs you're looking at are very capable (assuming you have at least Live LE, and a recent enough Garage Band to allow some automation... don't know version details).

Invest the time! You'll be so glad you did.