Pc | Mac Performance Question... Edit V, Input for those who have used Mac and PC Options

[designlord]

Hello All,

To give you some background, I'm a PC user from the DOS days and I'm currently running a Custom AMD 64 3000 with 3GB of RAM. I'm a gamer and game developer and musician and I need advice from those who have used both Mac and PC for a good clip of time.

I selected the base line Mac G5 and then selected my Custom PC parts for a 2nd computer within the G5 price. Here are the specs.

Apple G5 Power Mac

1.8GHz PowerPC G5
256MB DDR400 SDRAM (PC3200) - (Supports up to 4GB)
80GB Serial ATA - 7200rpm
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra with 64MB DDR SDRAM, DVI and ADC ports
SuperDrive (DVD-R/CD-RW)
Apple Keyboard & Apple Mouse - U.S. English
Mac OS X - U.S. English

Total = $1,500
or $2,224.00 with 2GB of RAM and a 250GB Hard Drive

Custom PC

AMD Athlon 64 3000
3GB PC3200 RAM
WD Caviar Series 250GB 7200RPM SATA Hard
GeForce FX 5200 Video Card with 128MB DDR SDRAM, DVI and ADC ports
Sony Internal 16X DVD+/-R / Double Layer/DVD+/-RW Drive
Microsoft Natural Multimedia Keyboard & Wheel Mouse Optical
Windows XP Pro
3U Rackmount Case

Total = $1,300


My biggest problem is I have never seen any comparison of PC vs Mac dealing with audio apps like Logic, Cubase, or ProTools, which I find odd given the “Everyone who is a music pro uses Macs" sort of quotes I have seen and all the talk.

I noticed on Apple's site that the single 1.8 G5 vs a 3.4 Intel is 20% > on machines with 2GB of RAM in a Photoshop filter test. But given RAM is a big, big part of performance (especially with a fair amount of plug-ins) a base line 1.8 G5 with ONLY 256MB RAM might not have that 20% margin against an AMD 64 3000 with 3GB of RAM.

Here is why I'm hesitant..
The only reason I can think of why Apple doesn't do comparisons is because the performance isn't that great over the PC anymore, and with XP improving (I'm running an OSX skin on XP) the cost/benefits don't hold up like they used to

Apple has been having quite of few PC like issues with compatibility problems, loud fans and there is a general sense of a loss of quality (I build my own PC's with a lot of research on parts and I never have issues). Also Apple's install base is lower then most PC makers and there appears to be a negative trend of the quality getting worse the more popular the product gets. This leaves me to conclude that part of their previous quality and overall success is due to it naturally being easier when you have less product to deal with, and a more niche, experienced professional market. For example Apple has a market share of 3.8% for US Personal Computer Market July 2004, while Dell had 34%, HP 19.3%, Gateway 5.6% and IBM 5.6%. Given the numbers, for every 1 mistake Apple has Dell will have about 30. So I think reality is coming to the Apple platform and they are finding out it may note be as easy to do what Microsoft and the PC does, even though Apple's customers for the most part think PC's stink compare to Apple's. As you can see the comparison isn't really Apple's to um, Apple's = ). Any Apple users see this trend as well? Have you had many problems with the last OS change and hardware update.

Cost. Even if I was rich, a $1000+ bucks saved can buy an audio interface to speed up the machine, a new Gibson Les Paul, a down payment on a new car. Maybe it's the programmer in me but it isn't computing. = )


Here is why I'm interested..

“Everyone who is a music pro uses Apple”, which means unless these people are just stubborn loyalist afraid to try new things, or dumb, then there must be something useful to Apple's.

The interface and design is great. I have played on them a bit, but no long term experience to compare my PC experience in audio or programming.

I want to try to port my game technology to the Mac and tap the growing but open market.

Also, any news on how Cubase SX 3/ Nuendo compares on Mac vs PC? I have read that some Mac users think the Mac version is taking a backseat to the PC in development, and the PC version is running much better then the Mac version.

And finally, does upgrading a Mac “breaking the seal” VOID the warranty?? Given that Apple is trying to run a hardware monopoly and charging $525 for an upgrade to 2 GB of RAM when I can buy 3 GB of Corsair for $300 I find this important. I didn't see it listed in plain text on the warranty. But if it doesn't that would help me justify the switch and save money. Otherwise,, since I just can't buy a new low cost part like on PC I wouldn't want to void the warranty and then have the Motherboard die.

So can anyone help? Any Mac users here really know, or do you all just take it on faith that Macs are better? That is hard for me to do given the cost involved and that I'm not careless with my money.

Please no rude, unhelpful posting. If you need to do it to get off then by all means, but keep in mind that I'm interested in Macs or I wouldn't be here, I would do the same if a PC cost $1500 and I could build my own Mac with a larger HD and more RAM for $300 less.

Thanks All!

This post has been edited by designlord: Mon 14 Mar 2005, 06:34

[arvidtp]

hey - here's my 1.9999… cents

dont buy RAM from apple - the overcharge - get it from RAMJET or datamem.com (just make sure its apple certified) for cheaper and install it yourself. It will not void any warranty. I've done it twice.

yeah - i will concede - in true plain old speed, PCs are a little faster - but this is more than made up for by how the user accomplishes things faster due to a better designed system and user interface, and less crashes, less problems etc. etc. When i use a windows machine now, it feels like a toy Mac OS X has me spoiled. It is MUCH better than the previous mac systems, which were admittedly underfeatured/underpowered.

havent used cubase for years, but i think they are sorta "windows-first", but it does run on Mac.

[dixiechicken]

Mac OS-X is in many respects a great operating system.

However it is quite resource hungry you'll need at least a
decent G4 iMac and 515 Mb of ram to run it properly.
To have a really nice experience I'd say that a G5 with 1Gb ram
is the decent working minimum.

What you DO get with OS-X is actually
mature reliable technical underpinnings
the Unix Free BSD. ( 20 year old technology - just about )

OS-X Panther 10.3 - have a couple of really strong points.

1) given 1Gb ram the memory usage is very efficient,
the virtual memory engine in unix/linux distros is superior to just abot
anything on the market

2) Network performance and integration with windows network resources.
Better than pc in many cases. Copy large files and data over the
network is a revelation at times.

3) If your hardware is fresh and not weird in any way you'll have a very
nice and stable system.
( I have tons of stuff installed - apps may crash - Adobe GoLive -
but my system has not crashed on me yet ever [Panther that is])

4) With the unix underpinnings you have awesome automation-possibilities
and scripting av repetitive tasks. The command shells and apple script.
The cron.deamon and the like.
You can easily (fairly easily) write two text scripts in the bash command
shell. Make them executable and have the cron-deamon run them at
predefined times. Voila you'll have a perfectly good working backup-
system with just the installed system.
If you're sneaky you can have an external disk that only mounts up
into the file system at backup times.

The reason Apple likes to show off the Photoshop filter tests is because they
use the Altivec-engine in the cpu - that will leave most PC:s in the dust.

( lucky me who do excatly only just that on my Mac )

5) There is also good amount of really slick apps on the Mac-platform,
unless you have very specialized interests you can accomplish the
same things on both platforms.

(I consider DP-4.5.2 to be the best DAW out there there is - I bought it didnt I )

In the long run you'll probably accomplish most with the tools you feel
most at home with. Your own workflow an creativity is more important
than the actual tools you use.

My two cents - cheers: Dixiechicken