Among all the technicians and electronic music makers here there ought to be a number of competent singers... And I know that the reply might very well be 'it has taken me 20 years to develop and there is no right way about it...', and I am painfully aware that this might be just the case. However, I am still gunning for any hints or good advice I might find.

What I'm wondering is: How do you learn to use your stomach properly when singing? And I don't except a full guide posted on this off-topic forum, but any hints, or even urls to online guides to singing, would be wonderful...

Things I picked up in classical singing lessons, but good for rock or whatever:

- drink less beer;

- take a few classical voice-placing lessons and remember what they say so you can practice on your own (particularly the warming-up techniques);

- try not to be too digusted if your teacher's voice sounds really silly

- place your voice a bit like when you yawn if you want to preserve it;

- the sound sort of goes up the back of your head and over the top but makes your lips tingle;

- if you block your nose and the sound doesn't change, there's something wrong;

- if you shout, the sound you make isn't as powerful, you lose control, quality and loudness;

- try and keep your lungs filled;

- don't breathe with your shoulders;

- your belly goes in when your breath comes out;

- don't copy anybody, nobody has your voice besides you;

- never try to make vibrato, great if it comes naturally;

- attack first note from a bit higher than you think it should be;

- forget the advice sometimes and experiment;

- make strange sounds (not loud) and see where they lead you;

- use cracked voice sounds as bridges to get to a higher register you didn't know you had;

- tell your throat to think low when you sing high;

- tell your throat to think high when you sing low;

- record different ways of making sounds so you can play back and hear from outside your head (what you hear when you sing is partly internal and that's not what others hear);

- always warm up before practice or gigs, using classical techniques;

- don't drive long distances just before gigs, your ears go (and you can't sing right without them);

The muscles come from singing bearing all this in mind.

Good luck

I may add :

- never "force", you snooze you loose, voice is a fragile thing, broken almost impossible to restore (some Italians made a trade of it… the breaking unrestored that is

- LISTEN to yourself

goes with:

- LISTEN to others who are playing/singing with you

- don't overlisten the above 2, you'll miss the point

- practice, but always remember the first item

- if you are not in voice, keep quiet, better for music, your surrounding, and you

- stop that Celine Dion record, we are talking about singing in tune, not voice dramaturgy which use out of tuning. Great singers make that once in a while or consistently but naturaly. no stereotypic teacher involved. natural goes longer than standard.

- think of it as when you can "fill the place", then you are pin on it

- work!

- and then some!

- if you don't have a "voice", at least try to be in tune, respect your neighbours )))

the hidden bass-baryton from outer space

Ah, wonderful... Thanks fopr all the advice. Gradually, Macmusic is turning me into a musician...

If someone could just explain that 'sing high, think low, sing low, think high'-metaphor to me, then I would be up there on stage, swinging from the lampposts, any day now...

yep... singing from the stomach is tough to learn... especially if you are used to talking through your your nose like myself so everything seems nasal-fied

i knew I should have taken choir classes in school when I was younger

@Everybody
A warm hello! I'm actually not new in the forum but due to technical problems I could not participate for some time. This will change from now on.

@Webmaster
I was one of the unlucky guys with a pass of 3 characters. I sent you an email with my change request a month ago, but haven't received an answer so far. So I've now created a new user account. Sorry, I just couldn't wait any longer

@Ionas
Interesting post! I think I'll have to elaborate: While all of the above mentioned stuff is true I'm afraid it will not really help you so much. Therefore my advice: Take some lessons. In my opinion the voice is the one intrument that is hardest to learn autodidactically. Why? Because it uses a lot of muscles and tendons you cannot access directly and control visually. And an experienced teacher can help you so much more than some words written on a page. This is more true with the voice than with any other instrument.

When you decide to take lessons choose your teacher carefully. I would NOT recommend you to take classical lessons. My brother once took some lessons from a classical singer and was eventually told he "had no singing vioce"!!! Go to a jazz/pop teacher who has studied what in Germany is called "funktionale Stimmbildung". I am doing just that and almost every time is a revelation. My teacher virtually turned me into a singer within about 18 months.

The "sing high think low.." is supposed to suppress the larynx's tendency to go up when singing high reducing the precious space in your throat that is needed in order to develop tone. The muscle that makes the pitch actually expands towards the front so the upward motion is not needed at all. Do I make sense? There are books on the anatomy of singing. You might want to google around a little. Maybe my clumpsy attempt of an explanation has clarified why it's so hard to do this autodidactically. Anyway, good luck!

One more thing: Scream if you want to! Just listen to what your body tells you to find a way of sounding wicked without hurting yourself. It's possible.

Greets
Johnny

I agree classical teachers can be much too blinkered, but sometimes there's no choice.

The Roy Hart Theatre do wonders. There are residential summer courses but they are based in France. People come from all over the world. I was in a first timers course and there was even a woman from Australia. There are courses for those already used to their techniques. Some well known voice pros (singers, actors...) go there.

My opinion is based on my love of Bobby McFerrin's use of his voice. Although he has probably never heard of Roy Hart, I'm sure he'd approve. They help you discover what your voice can do, instead of teaching you how to copy others.

http://www.thewholevoice.com/index_en.html

http://www.comelec.enst.fr/~dufourd/RoyHar.../RHanglais.html

Take a listen, if theres any thing you would like to learn just email me!MESSIAH'S REIGN

Nice vocals!

Geoff Tate used to be one of my gods too. But I never even attempted to try singing this style.

JV

You missed one thing......I'm older than Geoff, so In all reality he sounds like me! I was singing "Queensryche" as you say, styled vocals since 1976, my insperation towards bands like YES, DEEP PURPLE and EARLY PRIEST, fueled my passion...not Queesryche, although they are a premier talent. But thank you VERY much for the kind words.