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Posted by: brutto Sun 15 Sep 2002, 18:43

Which one is the best for a mac user???
and for the osX jaguar users...

Posted by: zerocool90 Mon 16 Sep 2002, 04:24

logic, by far. cubase, ive found is less than enlightning, and ive had some troubles with it....also ive been told its really designed for people that want to work with mostly midi tracks and just some audio tracks...logic is OS 9 and X native, and is more widely used by pros...

Posted by: rickenbacker Mon 16 Sep 2002, 13:59

Plus of course Apple now own Emagic, so hopefully the future is bright for the program's development. It's already excellent - it could well get even hotter. Really Logic is the, er, logical choice for Mac users.

Posted by: Yukulele Mon 16 Sep 2002, 17:09

Just remember that cubase SX has nothing to do with its predecessors...
It has been mostly rewritten, and is now based on the nuendo audio engine (really good, IMHO), and there is vst system link... I've seen it on a windows xp, it's brilliant.

Bye.

Posted by: Synthetic Mon 16 Sep 2002, 19:56

lol... i don't think seeing an app running on Windows XP is a good selling point maybe that's just the anti-PC in me though

i also think Logic is better overall. I have just started using Logic and seen articles on Nuendo and Cubase... the new features in Nuendo and Cubase that make it nice have already been around for the most part in other apps like Logic and ProTools for awhile (such as automation) and I would trust an app that has made it through several versions already implementing these features more than a new app that just introduced them. Its kinds like the theory that you should never buy the first production year of any automobile... wait until the bugs are worked out and its refined then buy it that's my 2 cents

oh yeah... I also like the idea that Apple and Emagic are united... that means better support for Mac users

Posted by: Yukulele Mon 16 Sep 2002, 20:25

I was just pointing the fact that steinberg can accomodate any modern OS, and port its apps on it as soon as needed ;-) You know, i did use Cubase 1.0 on the Atari, a long time ago :-)
Anyway, seeing Nuendo running (on windows or mac os, it's the same!), i've completely changed my mind concerning Steinberg. SX and Nuendo are awesome improvements...

For Logic, i can't say a word, because i personnaly can't do anything with it, just illogical at all for my way of working. I didn't like notator, too. Emagic's buying by Apple means nothing to me, i'm just waiting for MOTU and Digidesign's releases.

All this competition is a good thing for us, we NEED better os X support.

Bye.

Posted by: Synthetic Mon 16 Sep 2002, 21:09

I was just teasing ya Yuk... I know most apps work the same whether on Mac or PC and I can't wait for Digidesign to get on board totally with OSX as well. I am pretty much devoted to ProTools and Logic now as those are my favorites.

Posted by: tokyoroland Tue 17 Sep 2002, 02:47

I just wanted to make sure: I am going to buy Logic Platinum ( os9 ) in a few days. I am going to download the osx version.

So I can use my midiman 2 X 2 to play my roland xp30 into Logic, right?
I want to record a whole bunch of Midi tracks ( sequencing) and edit them right into a quicktime movie. ( film score )

My brother would send me a dvd-r (most likely) and I would add music, maybe in imovie, or maybe in premiere. will Logic accomodate my needs?


Your response is greatly appreciated. - jeff

Posted by: formatj Tue 17 Sep 2002, 04:37

Your Midiman 2x2 and Roland XP-30 will work with Logic!
Logic Platinum OS 9 works! Logic Platinum OS X is downloadable from emagic and works!

Logic will accomodate your needs for recording and editing MIDI and audio. You will be able to work to a quicktime movie in Logic so that you can write to picture if you want. Your end product in Logic will be a mixed stereo file (unless you are doing a surround mix).

Normally you would supply your final mix to a sound editor who will mix the music, dialogue and sound effects together, however there is nothing stopping you from adding your file directly to a quicktime movie with iMovie.

Posted by: tokyoroland Tue 17 Sep 2002, 09:16

Thanks for the swift response, formatj!!!

I am really excited about getting Logic

" Normally you would supply your final mix to a sound editor who will mix the music, dialogue and sound effects together, however there is nothing stopping you from adding your file directly to a quicktime movie with iMovie. "

Why would I need a sound editor to do this???
Can Logic not mix sound, sound effects, and dialogue?

If not, then what program can? What do sound editors use?

For my first project, there will be no dialogue or effects, but surely my others will. How should I go about doing this?
what do other beginning film scorers do?

And how much would it cost to hire one of I couldn't do it with Logic.


Again, I really appreciate your help. - jeff

Posted by: formatj Tue 17 Sep 2002, 10:12

Logic can mix audio of any type whether it be dialogue, sound effects, music, etc....

All I meant was that normally working on a film it is not the job of the composer to mix his/her music to the film with the sound effects and dialogue. This is usually given to a sound editor/engineer.
So you would just supply them with a music mix.

I guess it depends on the budget of the film.

I have in the past worked on some low budget short films where I did the music and sound effects (and I did it all in Logic).

Posted by: tokyoroland Wed 18 Sep 2002, 03:56

Thanks for the reply!

would if I was sent a film with dialogue already incorporated into it. could I adjust that sound level and edit it in Logic? I would want a certain balance of music and dialogue. does Logic come with good sound effects?
- jeff

Posted by: formatj Wed 18 Sep 2002, 13:51

There is nothing to stop you from mixing your music with dialogue and sound effects already supplied. How are your mixing skills?

Logic does not come with any sound effects (possibly a couple of 3rd party promo sample CD's, I'm not sure what is packaged at the moment).

It does come with a few free software synths (ES E, ES M and ES P) and 12 week trial on some other software synths and sampler (EXS24, EVP88, ES1) and 30 day trial on some others (EVB3, ES2, EVOC20, and EVD6).

You can download various free software synths and sound effects from the net or purchase sample CD's or third party software synths from various suppliers if you need more sounds, or you can make your own!

Posted by: tokyoroland Wed 18 Sep 2002, 21:26

"You can download various free software synths and sound effects from the net or purchase sample CD's or third party software synths from various suppliers if you need more sounds,"


any suggestions?

Posted by: formatj Thu 19 Sep 2002, 05:21

For software synths and samplers a good resource is http://nav.440network.com/out.php?mmsc=forums&url=http://www.kvr-vst.com/

For free sounds you can use a search engine such as google and type in something like "free sound fx".
I would recommend buying emagic's EXS24. It will give you access to a huge library of sounds in AKAI, gigasampler, soundfont formats etc.....

You will find the sounds available in these formats are much better than the XP-30 sounds.

below are a few links for free sounds that will work with EXS24

http://nav.440network.com/out.php?mmsc=forums&url=http://www.first-wave-music.de/downloads/f_downloads.html
http://nav.440network.com/out.php?mmsc=forums&url=http://www.esoundz.com/soundz.html
http://nav.440network.com/out.php?mmsc=forums&url=http://www.cone.nl/test/exs.htm
http://nav.440network.com/out.php?mmsc=forums&url=http://www.chickensys.com/exs/
http://nav.440network.com/out.php?mmsc=forums&url=http://MusicBootCamp.com/exs24.shtml
http://nav.440network.com/out.php?mmsc=forums&url=http://www.analoguesamples.com/
http://nav.440network.com/out.php?mmsc=forums&url=http://www.projectsam.com/

Posted by: gdoubleyou Thu 19 Sep 2002, 23:10

I recently purchased the Big Box promo. It comes bundled with the ES1 softsynth, EXSP24 VSTplug(sample playback), and VP73 VSTPlug(rhodes emulator).

There are also three eMagic soft synths integrated into the program ready to use.

Several other softsynths are integrated into the program also. You are able to activate them for a limited period. You can later buy a licences for unlimited use.

Logic5 also includes an EXS editor so you can create your own banks of samples.

From eMagic's website it looks like the only difference between the EXS24 and EXSP24 is that the EXS24 can also load SDII, and sample cell formats. And that the EXSP24 is a VSTi, and can be used in any VSTi host, and there should be an audio unit version soon.

I've only had it for a couple of weeks so I am in the steep part of the learning curve.

The only feature that irritated so far is that Logic using OMS can not bring in my custom patch names.(don't use factory presets)
It's a cut and paste operation. It's tedious for 5 devices, but you only have to do it once.

Posted by: tokyoroland Fri 20 Sep 2002, 05:23

gdoubleyou -

do you know where I could get Big Box from, and how much it costs?

p.s. thanks Format J for the links!

p.s.s. so, would it be better to get EXS24 or EXSP24??

I just want to use the sounds in it unlimitedly, or atleast for a long period of time.

Also-- should I try to learn Logic first and THEN buy the EXS or just buy it now. Will all of this be too confusing at first? Remember how little you knew when you started out... that's ME!!! I have alot of tech stuff to figure out. thanks for everyone's help!




- jeff44rr000

Posted by: formatj Fri 20 Sep 2002, 09:16

Big box is the equivalent of Logic Silver with extra goodies. It does not currently work under OS X, though it will at some point in the future. It has less features than Platinum or Gold. It retails at US$299, you can get it for $249 from most internet music stores.

EXS24 is better than EXSP24, not sure if you need the extra features.

Virtual synthesizers and samplers are very easy to use.
It comes down to if you want to spend the extra money now and if you want a larger and better range of sounds.

Have a listen to the demos at http://nav.440network.com/out.php?mmsc=forums&url=http://www.projectsam.com/ (for example)
and hear the quality of the sounds you can expect.

Posted by: tokyoroland Fri 20 Sep 2002, 11:26

So EXS is a key, or what? And it comes with a whole bunch of sounds, or do i add sounds from downloads, or both? do I plug in the EXS and then load sounds onto it? I know I should research it first...but how much does it cost and where could I get it from? I am not full of money, ya know. I work a min. wage job ( I live at home w/family )

I am looking for mostly piano sounds, choir sounds, and a whole bunch of "atmostphere" sounds. I don't know how many sounds come with Logic plat., but I DO like SOME of my xp30 sounds, like the Euro Piano.

Am I looking at 100 bucks for a cr-rom like the horns from project sam.
I assume that these sounds and much better than the free sounds.
Though my budget is a little thin, I want to mimic a live orchestra and other instruments as best as I can.


thanks again, format j. you have been a real help.

p.s. do you have any music on the net? - jeff

Posted by: gdoubleyou Fri 20 Sep 2002, 23:52

I picked up the big box at Guitar Center, and got it for $200.

Check their website, but you may be able to get it cheaper at one of their stores.

I'm not so sure the EXS24, is better than the EXSP24 VSTi.

The have the same parameters, the EXS24 does add a volume control, and an edit button that takes you to the editor. But you can only use it in Logic. I was curious about the differences so I activated the demo. They sound the same to my ear. The big difference I see is direct import of Sample Cell, and SDII formats.(check out the screenshots.
http://nav.440network.com/out.php?mmsc=forums&url=http://www.emagic.de/english/products/instruments/exsp24_2.html
http://nav.440network.com/out.php?mmsc=forums&url=http://www.emagic.de/english/products/instruments/exs24_2.html)

In Cubase the EXSP24 VSTi shows up as 4 stereo tracks. It can load multiple samples and have them triggered by different midi channels.

Hopefully the EXSP24 will be converted to audio units.

The EXS24 is not an audio unit, it's an integrated instrument, part of Logics code base.

Looks like I have more upgrading to do Steinberg announced that SX for OSX will be relesed on Oct.10.

NOW it's getting interesting!!!

Posted by: tokyoroland Sat 21 Sep 2002, 08:06

where can I buy the exs programs from? I don't see a place on the website... AND HOW MUCH DOES IT COST?!?!?!?! geeezz... - jeff

Posted by: formatj Sat 21 Sep 2002, 09:16

Jeff,

If you did not want to be on OS X now I would recommend the "Big Box" as a great starting solution.

EXS24 retails for US$399 you can buy it for less than $300.
EXSP24 retails for US$179 you can buy it for less than $130.

As I said before if you buy logic you can try the exs24 fully functioning for 12 weeks (it was this long for the upgrade though maybe only 28 days if you buy Logic new).
See if you like it and if you will use it, then buy it later.

As I said before EXS24 is better than the EXSP24 and as you have stated that you want to work in OS X it is your only option at the moment as it works now, EXSP24 does not work in OS X.

Yes they do sound the same "gdoubleyou" as all they are both doing is playing back wave/aiff/SD files etc, however there are more features in EXS, you have stated some.
The EXSP24 doesn't provide any sample editing features at a waveform/keygroup level.
Basically EXS24 is a sampler EXSP24 is a sample playback device.
EXSP24 also doesn't load giga library.
So if you don't want to make or edit your own samples EXSP24 would be fine (except for the fact it doesn't load Giga and doesn't work on OS X yet).

Do you have a fast internet connection jeff?
I can point you to some more free sample sites, however there are probably over 1 gigabyte worth of samples.

In answer to your other question from previous post I do have some examples of my work on the net. I will send you a link.

Posted by: tokyoroland Sun 22 Sep 2002, 09:57

formatj:

I WANT to work in Osx and I have a cable ( very fast ) connection

I also have 60 gigs, so I don't worry too much about space! Go ahead and give me the links, thanks alot for them ( I already bookmarked the others!)

WOW! EXS24 is sure expensive. It seems like you have to spend an arm and a leg just ti record some quality sounds nowadays! I don't care about making sounds or editing them too much so EXSP24 would be good ( If it was on osx! ) But 12 weeks of EXS24 would be FINE! 28 days? that would suck...

Anways.... so how do you load all the sounds into Logic? Does it mention it in the Logic help? I am new to all of this.

thnaks again

- jeffrro

Posted by: HauiB Wed 9 Oct 2002, 02:43

as a cubase user I am leaning toward sx, logic seems very appealing, but the cost is still steep, and the learning curve (i have been told) is a bit rough

so in the meantime i will stick with what i know, cubase