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Posted by: musicteacher Sat 7 Dec 2002, 21:00

I am a public school music teacher who is thinking about getting a new iBook to use as a portable music making tool. Here's what I would like to do with it:

1. Sequence backing tracks in various musical styles for my students to play along with in class. I'd want to burn these backing tracks onto cd and bring them into the classroom so my kids can jam to a calypso-style "This Land Is Your Land" or whatever. What would be good software to do this with an iBook?

2. Record my own music and my students music either live or track by track - what is the best way to get sound into an iBook?

3. Begin to explore the world of software synths. Which ones are easy to use and can interact well with the software/hardware used for the above two items?

I hope that's clear enough. I'd appreciate any suggestions. If there's anyone answering who lives in the NYC area and can help me in person with this I'd be really grateful. Thank you for supporting public education.

Posted by: ghess Mon 9 Dec 2002, 17:26

musicteacher,

An organization that you might find useful is the Technology Institute for Music Educators-TI:ME (http://www.ti-me.org). This non-profit group was created to specifically to train and support music educators. In the meantime, let me try to answer your questions.

1. For creating backing rhythm section tracks to accompany your classes, you might want to consider Band in a Box. It's very easy, just type in the chord symbols, select a style and tempo and click play. The files can be exported as standard MIDI files. The people who sell Band in a Box also have a very nice Roland Virtual Sound Canvas that they offer as an inexpensive add-on ($20, i think) to any BIAB purchase. This softsynth has a pretty decent sound set and will also convert your MIDI files to audio files. You can then use iTunes to burn your CD. Total cost for this solution is less than $100. Be sure to ask for the educational price.

2. Recording audio on an iBook requires an audio interface. The least expensive option is the Griffin iMic. I've not had any experience with this, so I can't comment on the quality, though some people on this forum have said it works well for them. I believe you can use this with ProTools Free (http://www.digidesign.com/ptfree/). Another option you might consider is the Edirol (Roland) combination MIDI and Audio interface. I use a MOTU 828, which is considerably more expensive ($6-700). Digidesign also offers a couple of audio interfaces for under $1000. Both include audio recording software. There are many supporters of Logic on this forum as well, though that option will tend to be a little more expensive, as would Digital Performer or a hardware based ProTools system

3. The Roland Sound Canvas I mentioned above is probably the least expensive one. However it is primarily a sound module, there's not a lot of editing available. You might want to try Native Instruments free Soundforum Synth.(http://www.nativeinstruments.de). It emulates a basic analog synth an includes an oscilloscope. Other popular software synths include Reason, which I highly recommend for its educational potential. You can get a demo at http://nav.440network.com/out.php?mmsc=forums&url=http://www.propellerheads.se

One final thought. While OS X 10.2 has made great strides towards integrating audio and MIDI, much of the software listed above is still for OS 9. I suggest you plan on using OS 9 at least for the near future.

Posted by: rickenbacker Wed 11 Dec 2002, 16:58

Logic 5.x, Cubase SX, Pro Tools, Bias Deck & Peak, Storm 2.0, Reason 2.0 and Live 2.0 all run on OS X (10.2 preferred). Digital Performer is the only "major" sequencer yet to transfer to OS X.

There is also an OS X-specific Midi-only sequencing application called Intuem, which is OK and pretty cheap, though it has had teething troubles. With software, you generally get what you pay for.

Older soft synths like the Native Instrument collection do not run on OS X yet. There is also the issue of VST vs Audio Units for plug-ins in OS X: Logic only allows Audio Units, Cubase only VST. Thus, when you make a choice about your sequencer, you're making a choice about your future plug-in options.

Audio Units are the preferred choice for Mac musicians on OS X, being based at system-level and thus more efficient than VST, but there is good stuff appearing for VST in OS X. Storm 2.0, for instance, is VST-based, so could plug-in to Cubase but not Logic.

ReWire is another concern: Logic 5 in OS X still doesn't support it, Cubase does. So if you have Reason 2.0 for the synths, you can hook it up to Cubase or Live, say, for the multitrack sequencing and audio recording.

A good budget system (relatively speaking, as it always is with computers) would be Reason 2.0 and Live 2.0 and hook them up via ReWire. That way you get Midi and audio recording, plus an excellent collection of soft synths in Reason and Live's creative, flexible approach to recording/remixing.

Alternatively, Storm is a good cheap option, with Logic Platinum the best there is, IMHO. In most sequencers you get a few free synths and FX, too, so you can get started straight away.

Personally, I use Reason, Live, Storm and Logic on a 600MHz iBook, all in OS X. My interface is an Edirol UA-700, via USB, which I bought because of the onboard FX and guitar amp / microphone modelling sections, which are really great. It's also got every kind of connection you could ever need.

I've tried most of the interfaces around (under £500, anyway) and I like the Edirol stuff a lot. The UA-5 is another great solution if you don't need the extra FX: it has all the connections of the UA-700. The only drawback is the OS X drivers are still being worked out - for the most part the Beta driver works fine, but I'd still like them to finish the job!

FireWire is faster and some people will tell you USB is too slow for music, but if you're only recording a couple of tracks at a time, USB is fine. It's only a problem if you try to record and playback something like 8+ sources at once - miking up a live orchestra, say. For 2-in, 2-out recording, USB is fine.

Hope that helps and doesn't make the matter even more complicated!

Posted by: Hamish Wed 11 Dec 2002, 17:57

The absolute simplest option would be to get a general midi synth keyboard with midi ins and out, connect this through a usb midi interface such as the emagic mt-4, use this for your sounds and then use a basic sequencer such as cubase or logic. Doing this will be very easy, and you will probably be able to explain it in an understandable way to the kids as well. Good Luck!

Posted by: BagHun Wed 11 Dec 2002, 19:36

Posted by: goldmike Thu 12 Dec 2002, 11:01

Hi everybody,
I´m working on a iBook 700 Mhz with Motu 828 under Mac OSX. After several years of good ol´ Mac OS 9, i switched completely to OS X.
Was a goog decision. Maybe everybody will have noticed that MIDI just rocks under Mac OS X. I work with reason and logic a lot, but when it comes down on editing audio, I prefer Celemonys‘ Melodyne.
It‘s a absolutely killer application!! Those guys recently updated their software to version 1.5. I just extremely recommend everybody who works with monophonic instruments (lead intruments, melodic, no chords) to download the demo (-> http://nav.440network.com/out.php?mmsc=forums&url=http://www.celemony.com/melodyne/Demos.html) and check out how audio can be handled (similar to editing Midi) with Melodyne. If your´re a professional who is used to work with Autotune for exp. and your not satified (how can you?), you´ll find what you need in Melodyne. I also use it to create new sounds out of it. Imagine morphing a tenor sax into a blues harp, in realtime. To me it´s THE MAC OS X programm. Best_goldmike

Posted by: rickenbacker Thu 12 Dec 2002, 16:01

Baghun: OK, Pro Tools X isn't out yet, but it's due in January. Live 2.0 isn't out either, but it's due out this month (which seeing as it's the 12th already must mean pretty darned soon).

Good suggestions from Hamish, though I'd shrink from calling Logic a "basic sequencer". An "incredibly powerful, complicated sequencer" perhaps. Even the leaner Silver edition is more than many people ever need. Logic is excellent, but Live is very easy to use, particularly if you want kids to use it, and is set to gain some important new features in v.2.

Goldmike: Melodyne is very cool, but very expensive. I'm lucky enough to have a copy, too, and it's fantastic. But maybe too much for musicteacher's needs.

Posted by: musicteacher Thu 12 Dec 2002, 22:54

Thank you all for all of this helpful information. I greatly appreciate it.

How does one run OS9 on a new iBook that, I assume, only comes with OSX. Is that possible?

Thanks!

Posted by: rickenbacker Fri 13 Dec 2002, 15:46

Noooo! Don't do it! Don't go back to OS 9! Go straight to OS 10.2!

Only joking. Well, kind of.

If you buy an iBook quick smart, it should still come pre-loaded with OS 9 and will boot into 9. In 2003, all new Macs will only boot into OS 10.2, though OS 9 will still be on there to allow you to run Classic apps. In other words, you stay in the OS X environment and OS 9 loads within it. But you won't be able to boot into OS 9. Silly, isn't it?

However, not all OS 9 apps will run in the Classic Environment. All my Macromedia web apps do, plus Photoshop etc, but a lot of OS 9 apps won't - especially most music apps. You're better off rebooting into OS 9 proper if you want to work in that environment.

Computer music: no-one said it would be easy...

Posted by: ryosode Fri 13 Dec 2002, 22:20

Wait Rickenbacker, as it currently stands, I believe by default OS 9 is non-bootable, i.e. in classic environment only. At least that was the case for my new eMac. In order to run OS9, you will have to get an iBook, then purchase a OS 9 CD separately...

Posted by: musicteacher Sun 15 Dec 2002, 16:53

My fear is that after I get my new iBook (if I in fact do) that I will run into some little problem that I won't be able to fix and this website will be closed down. Is there some resource in the NYC area that you know about where people teach each other how to do all this in person? Or a class or teacher?

Again, my thanks for all your help.

Posted by: ghess Mon 16 Dec 2002, 14:22

Musicteacher;

There are two online resources which are particularly geared to music educators. TI:ME, The Technology Institute for Music Educators, http://nav.440network.com/out.php?mmsc=forums&url=http://www.ti-me.org, maintains discussion groups and mailing lists which can be used for any questions you have related to music technology.TI:ME also sponsors classes throughout the country.
The Association for Technology in Music Instruction, ATMI, http://nav.440network.com/out.php?mmsc=forums&url=http://www.music.org/ATMI also maintains a mailing list for similar discussions.

Posted by: jmax Mon 16 Dec 2002, 19:05

Take a look at http://nav.440network.com/out.php?mmsc=forums&url=http://www.harvestworks.org they have a number of classes that would probably be of help for you.

Posted by: ryosode Tue 17 Dec 2002, 23:27

NYC being a huge market for multimedia, I bet there are classes or individual teachers involving OS X and music making. You should search for those.

The fact that matters is that this audio stuff has a very steep learning curve. But once you are past certain point, everything will make sense to you. So try and take a couple of classes or find an expert in your area who can sit down with you and walk through this. If not, join a band that does computer based recording by themselves. That's how I learned my stuff.

Posted by: bowsk Thu 9 Jan 2003, 01:30

If i can just throw in a query, Is there a major difference between the sound quality of a recording on a laptop or a tower?

The romantic idea of taking a laptop to a recording session is very appealing, will it still be of a professional quality? and be appeal able to keep the true dynamics of some mind blowing live music?

Posted by: rickenbacker Thu 9 Jan 2003, 13:16

Bowsk: there's no difference between recording on a laptop or a tower, per se. The crucial factors are the same for any computer: hard disk size and speed, processor speed and type, sound card, graphics card, screen size - these are all the things that matter.

Towers are usually better-equipped and offer a higher level of tech spec than laptops and are also more flexible in terms of adding new components. But if you were using the same setup on a tower or a laptop, you'd get the same result.

If you could afford a new 17" 1GHz G4 Powerbook and add on a FireWire audio/midi interface and FireWire hard drive ( ) that would be the ultimate portable studio.

Posted by: charlieb Thu 9 Jan 2003, 15:57

Hi Rickenbacker,
When you talk about "and add on a FireWire audio/midi interface" please tell me exactly what you are talking about.

Thanks,
cb

Posted by: Presto Thu 9 Jan 2003, 17:12

I'm no expert but have an ibook600 with 384 Ram, and use it with an Mbox (two I/O - ins an outs) and ProTools LE and therefore OS9 for the mo. When my apps want OSX I'll give it them but under OS9 they work well so I don't care. If you need OS9, before you buy a new computer, ask if the OS9 install CD comes with it.

I only do audio so for me the mics are very important. I'm waiting (impatiently) for my new DPA 4066 miniature mic and headband to arrive. Then I'll be able to consider my recording setup portable. I would say that being able to move your mic(s) and place them wherever you want, easily, is very important. Have a look at the DPAmicrophones instrument kit.

An ibook is quite enough in my opinion, IF you don't use so many tracks you need a video projector to see half of them AND if you don't have to abuse plugin use to hide bad quality recording. OK, if you want to go into recording/mixing etc for clients as a full time job, then the ibook would have limitations.

Point of view of a littlie who doesn't use midi

Posted by: rickenbacker Fri 10 Jan 2003, 13:27

charlieb: I mean that whatever Mac you own, you're going to need to add either a better quality soundcard (if you have a tower) or a FireWire or USB interface if you have a laptop. If you're at all serious about the fidelity of your recordings, the internal soundcard of the Mac (although pretty good) won't be good enough. This is true for most musicians here, I'd say.

Presto's Mbox is a USB interface: the MOTU 828 or 868 that a lot of people here seem to like is a FireWire interface. There are plenty of interfaces around to choose from - Edirol, M-Audio, Emagic etc all make various flavours. Some have Midi, some have digital I/O, some have FX onboard. It all comes down to cost.

FireWire is faster than USB, obviously, which is why some people say USB isn't sturdy enough to cope with multitrack audio. But like Presto says, it depends how much you're doing. If you're a professional engineer or musician and you want to send 24 tracks out from your Mac to an external digital mixer, you're probably better off with a FireWire device. If you're only sending a stereo signal back and forth, or maybe a few more tracks, USB is fine. I use a 600MHz iBook with an Edirol USB interface and it's been good for me.

But if I had a sackload of money, I'd buy a new PowerBook, a FireWire interface like the MOTU 868 and a FireWire hard disk. Probably cost close to £4,000 all in. Dare to dream!