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440 Forums _ Logic Express & Logic Pro _ Slow drive, Logic on Quad 5

Posted by: hahaworld Sat 28 Oct 2006, 20:41

Dear Friend,

I am also using a Quad G5, and I have had Slow Disk errors while using Logic Pro since I bought it in July. Have you had this problem with your G5? I've been to the Genius Bar about 4 times, and no one seems to be able to pinpoint the problem. The Slow Disk errors happen whenever I'm using a third-party plug-in like EastWest Symphonic Orchestra or Synthogy Ivory. It also happens when I'm working with audio. The other day, I only had two audio tracks running, and the Slow Disk error kept popping up. I still use Logic on my PowerBook G4, and it screams along just fine. It's sad to have a G5 Quad that runs slower than a laptop I've had since 2003. Any ideas you might have would be greatly appreciated!

Sincerely,
HaHaWorld

QUOTE (GitGeezer @ Tue 7 Mar 2006, 01:42)

Interesting, I answered this question for myself several months ago.

I had problems (pops, hangs, no SPDIF I/O) with the Firebox on my Powerbook 667 so I returned the Firebox and bought the Traveler. The Traveler worked much better, but now on my current system (I haven't tried SPDIF I/O yet) I have to toggle the optical input settings after booting to "wake up" audio output. Still no definitive word from MOTU (they suggested the output toggle exercise) on a real fix, but at least now once it's "awake" it works until the computer is power-cycled again.

As you can see from my sig I moved up to a Quad G5 from the Powerbook. I'm in this seriously, so I seriously abused my retirement savings. So far I haven't regretted it. Logic 7.1 is actually easy to use on this system, and Reaktor 5 may occaisionally make some (unintended) strange digital-lockup noises, but the CPU is still less than 35%. The funny part was I thought the lock-up was part of the Reaktor patch I was using so I recorded it. I didn't know it until I looked at the waveform in Logic. So much for my 30 years of synthesis experience...

I don't currently daisy-chain a FW drive from the Traveler, but I did on the Powerbook and it worked as a recording target drive. I do use FW400 drives on the Quad G5, but I intend to get a FW800 drive for recorded sound files. I've been told that the FW800 bus is independent of the FW400 bus (which is used by the Traveler) so I'm expecting pretty good performance.

Stay tuned...

Posted by: lepetitmartien Sun 29 Oct 2006, 03:55

There's quite some issues unsolved of software running on the quad. I expect it's another one.

could you detail the exact config ram, hard drives… ?

(I've separated the threads, it's heading in an interesting direction quite different)

Posted by: hahaworld Sun 29 Oct 2006, 13:58

Hi, lepetitmartien!

Thanks for starting this new thread. Here is my setup:

PowerMac Quad 2.33G G5 Desktop
4.5G RAM
Logic 7.2.3
Samples running from internal hard drive (I did this on a recommendation from Synthogy AND EastWest. Initially, I had my samples on my LaCie 500G 7200rpm external FW800 drive, but they told me it would be better to have the samples on the internal drive).
Recording audio to the LaCie external drive

I have tried every imaginable I/O Buffer setting in Logic, as well as latency settings in Symphony Orchestra and Ivory to no avail. I still get the Slow Disk errors. Could it be a problem with my internal disk? I have not called Apple Tech support in several months, because they told me it was a software issue and I would have to set up a Logic Software session with a technician for an initial fee of $130, going up from there. So, I've been trying to solve this by myself. I've been a Mac user since 1988, and I've been using Logic since 2000, so I feel pretty savvy with the program.

Thanks so much for your concern and dedication to these forums, my friend! Any ideas you may have would be greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,
HaHaWorld

Posted by: lepetitmartien Mon 30 Oct 2006, 04:05

If I get you right, the guys at "Synthogy AND EastWest" should know better… They made you instal samples on your system drive, right?

I'm sure if you instal a new drive in the quad, besides the system one, only for audio, it'll get wayyyy better The system drive will never be able to cope with calls for read/write from both the system, the apps, the virtual memory swap files, and files (especially audio streaming, recording or samples look out).

Having the samples on the FW drive was a good move. but if you're using heavily samples and you're recording at the same time, having samples and audio recorded on different drives is a good move too. But the system drives should be only for the system, the apps, and other files. But once it's audio you're talking about, let's install them elsewhere.

Maybe they told you to put them on an internal drive but weren't that clear about it, or were concerned about the FW800 as it's not as good on G5 as it should be (it's still pretty fast and better than USB2 anyway, but not as fast as it should be, Apple screwed it big time, I wonder if it's corrected on the macpro…).

Drives are cheap these days, get a seagate in SATA (should cost the $130 or less) and run the samples from it. Use the FW800 as a back up (or for recording audio and back up every day on the new internal, you'll have room to spare anyway), LaCie is serious, but I've heard a lot of complain about reliability of BigDisks, now they ARE fast (it's RAID 0 in BigDisks), so I'm careful. It's stupid to have such power and not being able to use it because some supports are really lagging in common knowledge… With all the respect to the guys at Apple, Synthogy and EastWest.

(btw I'm quad jealous I'm still on a mono 1.8 G5 of 2003…)

Posted by: hahaworld Mon 30 Oct 2006, 06:23

>If I get you right, the guys at "Synthogy AND EastWest" . . .made you instal samples on your system drive, right?<

That's the impression I got from the calls and emails I made. No one at Synthogy OR EastWest said anything about it being on a drive besides the system drive.

>I'm sure if you instal a new drive in the quad, besides the system one, only for audio, it'll get wayyyy better. . .Drives are cheap these days, get a seagate in SATA (should cost the $130 or less) and run the samples from it.<

So, I'm new to SATA drives. Where is a good place to get a SATA drive? Are they easy to install inside the G5?

>The system drive will never be able to cope with calls for read/write from both the system, the apps, the virtual memory swap files, and files (especially audio streaming, recording or samples look out). . .Having the samples on the FW drive was a good move. but if you're using heavily samples and you're recording at the same time, having samples and audio recorded on different drives is a good move too. But the system drives should be only for the system, the apps, and other files. But once it's audio you're talking about, let's install them elsewhere.<

This is great information, my friend!

>Maybe they told you to put them on an internal drive but weren't that clear about it, or were concerned about the FW800 as it's not as good on G5 as it should be<

My LaCie drive also has FW400 connections. Would it run better if I just hooked up a 400 cable?

>Use the FW800 as a back up (or for recording audio and back up every day on the new internal, you'll have room to spare anyway), LaCie is serious, but I've heard a lot of complain about reliability of BigDisks, now they ARE fast (it's RAID 0 in BigDisks), so I'm careful.<

That sounds great. So to recap, I should install a Seagate SATA drive INSIDE my G5 and put all my samples on it, record audio on the LaCie drive and backup the audio on the internal SATA drive. Correct? Should I move all Apple samples and loops over to the SATA drive as well?

>It's stupid to have such power and not being able to use it because some supports are really lagging in common knowledge… With all the respect to the guys at Apple, Synthogy and EastWest.<

Yes, I've felt very stupid over the past few months. Thank you for helping shed some light on this. I owe you big time!

>(btw I'm quad jealous wink.gif I'm still on a mono 1.8 G5 of 2003…)<

That's a great machine, too, my friend. If yours is working great, I'm jealous of you right about now! Thanks again for all your help! I'll get back to you once I get the SATA drive installed and let you know how it goes. If you're ever in Knoxville, TN, holler at me and we'll have you over for steaks!

HaHaWorld

Posted by: gdoubleyou Tue 31 Oct 2006, 20:22

I would remove the samples from the system drive especially if you are attempting to stream the samples.

OSX will allways use part of your system disk for virtual memory, Logic will use the same disk to buffer audio tracks for playback, any plug that you initiate will also use virtual memory. Using the sytem monitor app I have observed virtual memory fluctuation between 8-9 GB with my humble sessions on my Powerbook.

OSX will have priority for disk access and may delay other apps in line for disk access. Also having less than 10GB free space on your system disk will affect performance.

Posted by: hahaworld Mon 6 Nov 2006, 00:30

Thanks for the input!

HaHaWorld

Posted by: hahaworld Wed 10 Jan 2007, 04:04

Hello, Friends!

It's been a couple of months since my last post. I have been in the trenches with my G5 Quad, and things are not looking very bright at all. To recap, here's my current setup:

PowerMac Quad 2.33G G5 Desktop
4.5G RAM
Logic 7.2.3
Samples running from additional SATA Seagate 330G internal hard drive (NOT the system drive)
Recording audio to a LaCie 500G 7200rpm external FW800 drive

No matter what I do, I cannot run more than four (4) AU instruments at once. Here's a "for instance" in LOGIC:

Inst 1: Synthogy Ivory Piano
Inst 2: EastWest Platinum Violin
Inst 3: EastWest Platinum Cello
Inst 4: GarageBand Legato Bass

Beyond that, the snaps, crackles and pops start, and I get the LOW MEMORY error messages, followed by an earth-shattering crash of Logic.

Any other advice would be greatly appreciated. I've considered just dropping the whole thing off a bridge and buying a PC, but I think that's probably a little extreme.

Thanks for all your help so far!

Sincerely,
HaHaWorld

Oh!

I forgot to let you know that I can run this exact same setup and much more on my 2003 G4 1.33 GHz, 2G RAM laptop with no problems.

Brothers, this should not be.

Posted by: Mac Daddy Thu 11 Jan 2007, 00:01

hahaworld

I have been wondering how you have been. I remember when you purchased your G5 Quad. I was waiting to hear how you went. Terrible news. I feel you brother.

All I can suggest is selling it to a non-musician "Ad Agency-Graphic Designer" and get your old machine or a Dual. It ain't right. It's "F'd Up" I hope you get back to creating music again.

If there is anyway I can help you let me know.

Be cool, be clever, don't Bb.

Posted by: hahaworld Thu 11 Jan 2007, 02:25

Thanks for the kind words, MacDaddy.

Posted by: hahaworld Thu 11 Jan 2007, 03:23

Incidentally, it hasn't stopped me from making music!

http://nav.440network.com/out.php?mmsc=forums&url=http://www.johnthomasoaks.com

HaHaWorld

Posted by: Mac Daddy Thu 11 Jan 2007, 16:14

hahaworld... You've got skills. Enjoyed your music.

Posted by: hahaworld Fri 12 Jan 2007, 16:46

Thanks for listening, MacDaddy!

Girls only want guys who have great skills.

HaHaWorld

Posted by: Mac Daddy Sat 13 Jan 2007, 08:49

hahaworld don't even go there... I was being supportive. Perhaps you don't know what the word "Skills" mean in the "Hood". It means: Abilities. Actually, I thought you looked a bit Elton John and sounded Average Joe. This can stop here or get ugly. You got the SKILLS to get in the ring? Bring it.

Some deserve what they get...

Posted by: hahaworld Sun 14 Jan 2007, 07:05

Um. . .

Really confused by the "Skills" post, MacDaddy. I'm trying to figure out what incurred your wrath. I was just quoting the Napoleon Dynamite movie with the "Girls only want guys with great skills" line. I wasn't really referring to anything else. Please explain to me how I've offended you. I truly thought you were being supportive, but I am, as you have stated, just an Average Joe who is trying to use this forum to make friends. What do you mean by "some deserve what they get?"

I'm really missing a lot here, so please explain. I really don't understand what made you so mad.

Sincerely Confused,
John thomas Oaks (HaHaWorld)

Posted by: lepetitmartien Mon 15 Jan 2007, 03:41

To avoid ambiguities, misunderstood sarcasms and more, use smileys, "…"… People come from everywhere, from very different backgrounds and may not "get it" as you intend. (this is a general announcement, I am misunderstood too sometimes…)

Posted by: Mac Daddy Mon 15 Jan 2007, 12:37

hahaworld, yes there was a misunderstanding... I felt a bit stupid after expressing my 'sincere' concerns for your G5 Quad problems, then listening to your music, which: "Is much better than anything I could ever create" BTW.

Then you wrote: [Thanks for listening, MacDaddy! Girls only want guys who have great skills.]

I thought, "whaaaat!" Hence my 'Hissy Fit'. I'm not a girl, not homophobic. I responded with agression/wrath. Never heard of the 'Movie' you spoke of. Skills where I come from means: Proficiency, facility, or dexterity acquired or developed through training or experience. An art, trade, or technique.

Total misunderstanding on my part. I apologize. I hope you can see my side? I got it totally wrong. However, where I come from if a man calls another man a girl. "It either turns to romance or a fight!"

Often, things get lost in the translation... Hmmm, maybe that's why my lyrics aren't landing?! This is my last Post. I wish all 440 Members the best creative and trouble free Computer Problems. It's been cool, I've learned much here. Met several brilliant musician and great people. Be cool, be clever, don't Bb.

Peace

PS: hahaworld... I know I am going to hear your music on Radio, TV and see your name up in lights. I wish this for you with every XY Chromosome in me. 'Fo Real'

PSS: No need for a reprimand lepetitmartien. I'll miss you most. But, not in a "girly" way. I'm outta here.

Posted by: hahaworld Mon 15 Jan 2007, 22:12

Here is some info for anyone who may be having Quad problems like myself. I found this information on some other music websites:

OSX spreads the processing load evenly for all programs EXCEPT LOGIC. This is why LOGIC often runs out of processing power instead of off-loading the extra processes onto the next CPU. This is a leftover behavior from the dual-G4 OS9 setup when Logic controlled processor load by using one CPU for audio and the other for everything else. What this boils down to is that Logic is not aware of the extra processing power available on the Quad. Also, Logic will apparently only use up to 4G of RAM, no matter how much you have installed.

Why Apple has chosen not to address this yet is still a mystery. Logic is now a native app, and it is very frustrating to find this information out from third parties. The folks at Apple will not tell you this information unless you pay them a consultation fee of at least $199. Maybe these problems will be fixed when and if Apple to ramp Logic up to a true 64-bit app, but I haven't heard any news. So, I guess that's a pretty big IF.

I hope this information is helpful to any other Quad users out there.

Those of you more knowledgable than I can feel free to correct any of this information if it is innacurate.

HaHaWorld

p.s. lepetitmartien, thanks for the smley tips
and MacDaddy, thanks for the apology. Good luck to you.

Posted by: emgcarra Tue 16 Jan 2007, 16:14

Please forgive me if I am a little lost here, but when you said G5 Quad, Are you talking of
G5 2.66 GHz Intel Xeon Dual Core 2 machine...??
Thanks in advance.
emgcarra

Posted by: mortalengines Tue 16 Jan 2007, 19:54

BTW: MacDaddy you really should see Napoleon Dynamite. It's really funny. After that you should rent Nacho Libre, it's by the same director & very funny as well.

Posted by: hahaworld Wed 17 Jan 2007, 06:05

Hi, emgcarra!

No, I'm referring to the pre-Intel G5 2.5GHz Quad
I'm sure the Intel Dual Core is fine
Kinda wishing I would have bought the Intel machine
Hope I don't start over-using the smileys now
They're kind of addictive

Cheers, and good luck!
HaHaWorld

Posted by: gdoubleyou Wed 17 Jan 2007, 07:05

Also make sure you have the latest Pro Application support patch that applies to Logic and your current version of the OS.

Also check for any firmware updates for your machine.

It sounds strange, Oh!!! (lightbulb comes on) run the hardware test disk that came with your machine, actually try THAT first.

Posted by: davbox Wed 17 Jan 2007, 22:01

Hello folks,

Been lurking around here for quite some time. It's been a couple of years (Ithink) since I posted anything here. I was (and will be until very soon) recording on a G3 via a Behringer MX2004A desk into an M Audio Audiophile 2496 and using Logic Audio Silver. The setup was good enough for my needs at the time. However I've just bitten the bullet and ordered a Mac Pro Dual 2.66GHz with the Intel chips and a 500GB HD which is due for delivery next week. I have purchased Logic Pro 7.1 and am about to buy the upgrade to 7.2. I want to be able to record on up to 8 channels simultaneously so obviously the 2496 is useless - and would be anyway since it's a standard PCI card - not a PCI express. I think I'd like to go down the FireWire road for a new interface to be as flexible as possible but am unsure whether to buy an 8 buss desk and a sound/midi interface or to buy a dedicated control surface/audio/midi interface. I kind of like the idea of having a mixer so I could patch in a compressor if required etc etc. but also like the idea of faders controlling Logis rather than the mouse. I'd appreciate any advice from anyone on how to proceed. Please bear in mind that budget is now a concern since it wasn't easy convincing my wife I needed the Mac Pro!!

Best regards

Davie M

Glasgow