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440 Forums _ Logic Express & Logic Pro _ Recording With Cracks And Pops
Posted by: camarao Fri 17 Feb 2006, 22:45
Hi
I've noticed this problem:
I have a Powerbook g4 15" OSX 10.4.4, a Lacie Firewire external disc, a Terratec Phase 24 firewire soundcard, an M-Audio Midisport 4x4 midi interface, a Clavia Nord Lead, a Waldorf Xtk, Yamaha Fs1r, Oberheim Matrix 1000 and an Yamaha 01V digital mixer. The digital out of the mixer is connected to the digital in of the soundcard. In Logic Pro 7.1, when I record the stereo out of the mixer thru the digital cable (spdif) into the soundcard I get cracks and pops. I'm always recording to the external disc (7200rpm). I've tried the Powerbook's hard disk and I get the same problem. Usually the recorded file sounds good at the beginning, but after some minutes it starts to have those cracks and glitches. And I'm sure they're recorded. Itīs not a playback problem. I'm recording at 24bit 44100hz. I've tried recording second time and it had no cracks and pops !
Does Logic need to play all the song before it is recorded ? Do I have something wrong on my preferences ? Is this a bug ?
I've also noticed that when I use Kontakt 2 and I play a song for the first time, as soon as the song pointer reaches the Kontakt notes Logic stops with the following message: " CoreAudio System Overload.The audio engine was not able to process all required data in time.(-10011)". When I play the song the second time, Kontakt plays with no problems and the song doesn't stop. Is this related to the cracks and glitches problem in some way ?
What do you think ?
Thank you.
Alex
Posted by: gdoubleyou Fri 17 Feb 2006, 22:57
which device is sending the masterclock? How much RAM do you have? what is the speed of your Powerbook?
How much free space do you have on your system disk?
Try freezing all tracks then recording.
Posted by: camarao Sat 18 Feb 2006, 10:54
How much free space do you have on your system disk?
Try freezing all tracks then recording.
the Yamaha 01V is sending the masterclock, I have 1,5 gb RAM, the Powerbook is a G4 1,67 and I have 150 gb free space on my external disk and 30 gb on my system disk. I'm using only 2 virtual instrument tracks with Ultrabeat and Exs24 with a simple 8 sounds drum box, and a reverb plug-in. Why do I have to freeze with such a simple setup ? I had a PC pentium 800hz with 512 RAM and never had this kind of problems...
Posted by: Metro SE Sat 18 Feb 2006, 16:32
The cracks and pops definitely sounds like a master word clock sync problem. Are you sure that your digital audio card is in 'external' sync mode? Try swithcing it so that the card is in internal sync and the O1/V is in external sync.
The Kontakt problem is most likely unrelated. If it plays back fine the second time this is most likely because the samples are not fully loaded into memory until the second time and the first time is causing VM (virtual memory) page faults. How much memory do you have in the powerbook?
Posted by: camarao Sun 19 Feb 2006, 15:33
The Kontakt problem is most likely unrelated. If it plays back fine the second time this is most likely because the samples are not fully loaded into memory until the second time and the first time is causing VM (virtual memory) page faults. How much memory do you have in the powerbook?
the Yamaha is set to internal and the sound card to external. I'm sure about that. if I switch it the Yamaha no longer sends thru the digital output and the soundcard doesn't receive any signal.
well...in fact I didn't connect the digital stereo out from the soundcard into the Yamaha mixer...do you think I must have the 2 cables connected?
regarding the Kontak, what do you mean by "memory" ? I have 1,5gb ram and this happens even if the Kontakt is loaded with only one simple and short sample...
anyway, thank you for your help.
Posted by: ironhead Sun 19 Feb 2006, 19:37
ok this sounds like a buffer problem may be you buffer setting is too low
so you can look under audio menu
select hardware driver settings and then
select driver and increase your buffer settings to about 512
that should work
Posted by: gdoubleyou Mon 20 Feb 2006, 19:16
Also in the Power saving preference set the cpu to the highest performance setting.
Posted by: camarao Sat 25 Feb 2006, 20:01
the buffer was always 512 and I even tried with 1024 and the problem persists. the cpu was also always on the highest performance setting...
do you know if it has something to do with :
1 - delay compensation ?
2 - having the two digital cables connected ( I only have one connected from the out of the mixer to the in of the soundcard) ?
It is not definitely a cpu, buffer or ram problem, I think...
Posted by: Metro SE Sun 26 Feb 2006, 03:03
It is not delay compensation. Why not connect both Digital cables and try inverting the master and slave relationship between the audio device and the Mixer?
Posted by: lepetitmartien Sun 26 Feb 2006, 05:24
And verify everyone agrees to work at the same bit/KHz (both on the yam and in the mac, in logic, in audio MIDI setup and the sound pref panel).
Posted by: camarao Sun 26 Feb 2006, 21:40
It is not delay compensation. Why not connect both Digital cables and try inverting the master and slave relationship between the audio device and the Mixer?
I think I'll try that.
Posted by: camarao Sun 26 Feb 2006, 21:41
that was the first thing I was sure to be ok.
Posted by: camarao Sat 11 Mar 2006, 23:14
I think I've tried everything...I even get the same problem when recording thru the analog inputs ! That's not a digital issue, I think.
I'm completely lost and I donīt know what to do else... It's a question of luck, unfortunely. Sometimes I get good recordings, other times I get terrible ones. I'v tried to record with other software also like Ableton live and Dsp Quattro. I've changed the firewire cables. I've changed the way they connect to the Powerbook...The problem persists.
Maybe I have a defevtive unit or maybe this card wasn't designed to be used with Macs.
Posted by: lepetitmartien Sun 12 Mar 2006, 03:17
Time to bother the interface makers 
Posted by: camarao Sun 12 Mar 2006, 12:17
Yes. I've sent them an email complaining already. Let's see how long it takes to answer me..
Posted by: camarao Tue 14 Mar 2006, 01:08
Yes. I've sent them an email complaining already. Let's see how long it takes to answer me..
There is one thing I've noticed: I get many times a message about a error with midi and audio sync, and that it recognizes a strange sample rate. Maybe there is something wrong about the Mac's Audio Midi settings...
Posted by: camarao Sun 19 Mar 2006, 23:14
I FOUND IT !!! And it's unbelievable !
Any time my fridge starts , or my heater or a more strong lamp, there is a strange sample rate recognized ! That is why the bad recordings seemed so unpredictable. It seems the electricity is interfering with the sound card. Is there something I should do to protect my soundcard from being interfired by electricity ? This is a strange thing...
Posted by: jce44 Mon 20 Mar 2006, 17:02
You must be a very observant musician!!! You found the SOURCE of the noise, but it's maybe not the problem?
I know nothing about household electricity in your home country, but I know a little about unwanted analog signal (NOISE), caused by unbalanced current or electricty.
When your fridge (or other "load" on your household current) starts up, it changes the household current, which has its own, essentially, analog signal. The household current becomes "unbalanced" in relationship to your home grounding system. Especially with motors or other high amp draw home appliances, this can be a problem.
Somehow this imbalance is finding its way to your recording equipment?
Short of hiring an electrician (not yet anyway), if you were recording OK before & this recording noise is new, did you add a new piece of equipment, or cable, or electrical power strip? Something as simple as a ground connection gone bad in a TRS cable, or jack can act as an antenna... or a component in an amp or something?
Maybe you rerouted your cables to hook up new equipment and have the power and audio (digital or analog) cables laying side by side?
The noise problem is very believable. You are too cool for finding & recognizing the source! Professional studios spend much time and money to eliminate noise, especially electrical noise.
If you're interested in a good technical read on the subject-
http://nav.440network.com/out.php?mmsc=forums&url=http://www.equitech.com/articles/enigma.html
Let us know what you find & good luck.
http://nav.440network.com/out.php?mmsc=forums&url=http://www.equitech.com/articles/enigma.html
Posted by: camarao Mon 20 Mar 2006, 17:40
I know nothing about household electricity in your home country, but I know a little about unwanted analog signal (NOISE), caused by unbalanced current or electricty.
When your fridge (or other "load" on your household current) starts up, it changes the household current, which has its own, essentially, analog signal. The household current becomes "unbalanced" in relationship to your home grounding system. Especially with motors or other high amp draw home appliances, this can be a problem.
Somehow this imbalance is finding its way to your recording equipment?
Short of hiring an electrician (not yet anyway), if you were recording OK before & this recording noise is new, did you add a new piece of equipment, or cable, or electrical power strip? Something as simple as a ground connection gone bad in a TRS cable, or jack can act as an antenna... or a component in an amp or something?
Maybe you rerouted your cables to hook up new equipment and have the power and audio (digital or analog) cables laying side by side?
The noise problem is very believable. You are too cool for finding & recognizing the source! Professional studios spend much time and money to eliminate noise, especially electrical noise.
If you're interested in a good technical read on the subject-
http://nav.440network.com/out.php?mmsc=forums&url=http://www.equitech.com/articles/enigma.html
Let us know what you find & good luck.
http://nav.440network.com/out.php?mmsc=forums&url=http://www.equitech.com/articles/enigma.html
noise? I was not complaining about noise...
But thank you, anyway.
Posted by: Mac Daddy Sun 26 Mar 2006, 13:09
Camaro... Great advice. Just to add to your reply: "Don't try it yourself... Zap... Crack... Pow... Studio Gear For Sale... Previous owner Gone!
Posted by: lepetitmartien Sun 26 Mar 2006, 15:42
Time to go for some power conditionner or UPS (on-line models only) or balanced mains
Posted by: camarao Mon 27 Mar 2006, 01:28
yeah, for sure !...
Posted by: gdoubleyou Thu 30 Mar 2006, 01:40
You may also want to have an electrician look at your power circuits. It my be a loading problem, could be dangerous if it's an older building.
Posted by: jce44 Thu 30 Mar 2006, 16:28
Were you recording OK before & this recording noise or interference is new? I ask again because not sure you answered. Was anything different before than after this problem?
Noise: More technically referred to as Electro-Magnetic Interference (EMI) and Radio Frequency Interference (RFI), electrical noise disrupts the smooth sine wave one expects from utility power.
CAUSE - Electrical noise is caused by many factors and phenomena, including lightning, load switching, generators, radio transmitters and industrial equipment. It may be intermittent or chronic.
EFFECT - Noise introduces glitches and errors into executable programs and data files.
Be sure the UPS gear you purchase has power conditioning built into it. Some Uniterruptable Power Supplies do not. And it sounds more like a power interference problem which needs conditioning to get rid of it.
Here's an international web site that offers products and solutions with a local web page.
http://nav.440network.com/out.php?mmsc=forums&url=http://www.apc.com/products/
Posted by: camarao Thu 30 Mar 2006, 23:42
1865 !
Posted by: camarao Thu 30 Mar 2006, 23:43
Noise: More technically referred to as Electro-Magnetic Interference (EMI) and Radio Frequency Interference (RFI), electrical noise disrupts the smooth sine wave one expects from utility power.
CAUSE - Electrical noise is caused by many factors and phenomena, including lightning, load switching, generators, radio transmitters and industrial equipment. It may be intermittent or chronic.
EFFECT - Noise introduces glitches and errors into executable programs and data files.
Be sure the UPS gear you purchase has power conditioning built into it. Some Uniterruptable Power Supplies do not. And it sounds more like a power interference problem which needs conditioning to get rid of it.
Here's an international web site that offers products and solutions with a local web page.
http://nav.440network.com/out.php?mmsc=forums&url=http://www.apc.com/products/
the problem was always present . i'll definetely follow your advices. thank you !
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