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Posted by: sonickid23 Sat 13 May 2006, 01:54

So I've been doing some reading in this forum and have learned that, yes a large part of a good vocal involves the talent of the singer. However, technically what makes a good vocal recording?...after recording some of my own vocals and comparing to some CD's of mine I realize they need some sprucing up. I've heard about limiters and compressers and equalizers, yet I have NO CLUE what these do. I have fiddled with them a bit and can definitely hear a difference in the sound, but I guess my question is"What is the desirable vocal sound/quality?" and "How is it achieved?"...I'm sure this will spur a multitude of different answers...so I guest every just give your two cents. Thanks

Posted by: sonickid23 Sat 13 May 2006, 22:40

anybody?

Posted by: allears Sat 13 May 2006, 23:55

Hello,

You are correct that a good vocal recording starts with the person on the mic... it then follows the signal chain all the way down the line:

In an ideal world you would match the right mic and Preamp with the vocalist... all of these items will determine the quality of your recording

the quality of the vocal mic > quality of the Preamp/compressor > quality of the A/D on your audio interface > compression and EQ applied the vocal once it is placed in the mix.

Please post your mic/Preamp/ audio interface/ and compressor you are using.

Otto

Posted by: sonickid23 Sun 14 May 2006, 03:30

I have a pretty standard mic (not sure brand, cost me $120 if that helps), running into my Firewire Solo to my comp, into Logic...I've been fiddling with the Logic compressor as well as the AU Apple compressor. But I guess my main question would be, what do compressers, limiters, and equalizers do....and how will I know when I've achieved the best sound? Sorry if these questions are basic knowledge....I'm very very green with this.

Posted by: allears Sun 14 May 2006, 04:58

Hello,

A compressor is basically a variable gain device, where the amount of gain used depends on the level of the input. The gain is automatically reduced when the signal level is high which makes louder passages softer, reducing the dynamic range.

In the studio, compression is a useful tool when cutting tracks and adjusting the mix. For example, in a session the singer may be moving to and away from the mic, and a little compression will even out the volume changes that would otherwise be recorded. Once the tracks have been recorded, a compressor gives you a way to adjust the dynamic range of the track and balancing the tracks. Using an appropriate attack time, the naturalness of an instrument's sound will get through before the compression sets in. In some cases, compression may even reduce the need for equalization.

A Limiter processes your sound files using a sophisticated algorithm. Single peaks exceeding a user-defined level are softly compressed in such a way that the result cannot be distinguished from the original by the human ear. This permits rising the main volume of the sound file considerably without causing clipping or distortion!

EQUALIZATION (EQ) - boosting or cutting various frequencies in the spectrum of a sound.


That being said... sadly it is going to be difficult to get that "CD" quality vocal sound with a $120 Mic going straight into an inexpensive audio interface.

That "classic vocal sound" that you desire it the combination of very nice gear in the hands of a professional.

Buy the best mic/preamp/ Analogue to Digital Converters / audio interface/ and Monitors(speakers) that you can afford if you really want to get a few steps closer to that sound you desire.

Welcome to the club, the price of admission is high,

Good Luck!

Posted by: sonickid23 Sun 14 May 2006, 18:49

Thank you so much for the crash course....definitely answered all my questions. SO yeah, guess I'm gonna have to start saving the pennies.

Posted by: faradaze Mon 15 May 2006, 08:02

Though it is true that a Neumann, (I own an M 147), or similar microphone will give your vocals (and other intruments) greater depth and clarity, unless what you're recording is vocal-critical, ie., dependent upon the nuance and sybillance of the vocalist, you can get the sound you need from almost any microphone if used properly. By "properly" I mean "know your microphone." Take it outside and let it record normal, everyday sounds. Then, stand 8" in front of it and speak loudly, "This spring I've purchased a pot and a passle of pigs." Repeat these words at varying distances and at different volumes. I gaurantee you will learn more about your microphone in 15 minutes that you knew about your other mics before you sold them on ebay. You will also get to meet your neighbors if you haven't already!

In regards to compression, I use it to bring all the elements of the music into synch. As long as you have tracked to a click or some other reference, compression can bring your tracks into perfect allignment, wherever your ears tell you that is. Remember, there are as many variables as there are musicians so at the very least count each instrument in the mix as its own entity worthy of its own "place". You'll be surprised how often the seemingly smallest component in the mix can be manipulated to get the "big" sound you want.

Posted by: allears Mon 15 May 2006, 11:42

While I do agree that it is critcal for every user to get to know all of their gear inside and out, trying to get an SM58 to sound like a (U47,U87,C12, or Blue Bottle) is not going to happpen for most people.

I have however been doing a demo and writing a review of M-Audios new Sputnik mic (Large diaphagm/Tube) and for $470 street price this thing is very impressive.

I am in the process of doing direct A/B comparisons with the above mentioned mics into some vlery nice preamps by Neve, Summit, Avalon, and even M-Audios very own Tampa.

After the first two days of testing I am very confident that for $470 for the Sputnik Mic, and about $330 for the Tampa Preamp you would be taking a very large step toward getting that sound you desire, and for a relatively small amount of money.

Just my 2 cents

PS - And no, I dont work for or have any affiliation to M-Audio, I just firmly believe that they are truely the leading company in trying to put high level gear in the hands of the bedroom musician... and at the same time a lot of "Pro" users are picking up their stuff as well. Nothing but good things to say about what they are trying to do

Posted by: sonickid23 Mon 15 May 2006, 17:52

sorry nother lamens question....
what is a "pre-amp"
Is that the same as my M-Audio Firewire Solo?

Posted by: Mojave Mark Tue 16 May 2006, 14:27

For recording vocals a pre-amp is SUPER important. I use an Grace Design model 101 and it makes a gigantic difference in the vocal.

Posted by: sonickid23 Tue 16 May 2006, 17:18

hmmmm...whats a good, resonably priced, pre-amp then?

Posted by: mortalengines Thu 18 May 2006, 01:38

The Presonus Tubepre for just 100 bucks ain't bad...really. You can go up from there.

Posted by: sonickid23 Thu 18 May 2006, 02:36

so what is this preamp gonna do exactly? Does it make the sound clearer? Or just boost it some?

Posted by: cornutt Tue 30 May 2006, 20:16

Well, the typical preamp does several things, but there are three basic functions:

(1) Nearly all mics produce output levels that are very, very low compared to
a typical "line" level. If you were to plug a mic directly into, say, a power amp
input, you wouldn't hear much if anything. The first thing the preamp does is
provide additional gain, to raise the mic's output level up to "line" level.

Most mixers and some A/D interfaces have mic preamps built in. Among
the gear that is affordable to us non-celebrity types, built-in preamps
range from fair to awful. They can be all right for, say, miking a guitar amp
or a drum kit, but their deficiencies tend to get exposed when used to
record demanding tracks like lead vocals or accoustic guitars.

Really high-end mixing consoles have great preamps, but we can't
afford them. So manufacturers have taken to building separate preamps
for the purpose. Most of us don't need a whole console full of great
preamps; we only need one or two, so we can buy a box that contains
a mono or stereo preamp of superior quality and not have to mortgage
our houses for it.

(2) Some preamps are designed to emphasize or "color" certain
frequencies for specific purposes. For example, preamps that contain
tube front-end circuits are often said to make vocals and keyboards
"warmer". In theory, you can accomplish the same thing with EQ,
but it's sometimes more practical to just use a good preamp made
for the application than drive yourself crazy trying to tweak an EQ.
(The same consideration applies to mics.) Also, many preamps
have some basic filtering funcitons designed to solve certain
problems. For instance, mics that have a cardiod pickup pattern
are notorious for "proximity effect", which means that the bass
response goes up as the singer gets closer to the mic. To keep
the sound from becoming too boomy, many preamps have a high
pass filter that can be switched in to roll off the low bass some,
and compensate for the proximity effect.

(3) Nearly all modern mics, except for certain dynamic and ribbon
types, have "pre-preamp" circuitry built into the mic itself. There are
several reasons for this, but let's just say for simplicity that most
mics require some source of power. Some mics can be powered
with batteries. But there's a long-standing practice in the studio
equipment world that mics usually get their power supplied to
them from the preamp; this is called "phantom power". (It uses
a clever way of feeding the power to the mic back up the mic
cable, using the same conductors that the audio comes in on.)
A switch that is often marked "48V" or some such is the switch
on the preamp that turns on the phantom power to the mic.

Posted by: artofmixing Wed 3 Jun 2009, 15:00

I think a good thing to have in mind when recording vocals is that the vocalist is the most important part of the signal chain - make sure they are fully warmed up and relaxed to produce that memorable performance - I generally apply a compressor in the signal chain when dynamics are excessive and in terms of mixing, after the recording stage, emphasize the 5kHz frequency (or around this region) for vocal presence and a boost between 10-15kHz to cut the vocals through and make them sound more airy. Taping a pencil vertically to the pop shield improves its ability to prevent s and p blasting.

I like to use the AKG SolidTube 6-12 inches from the singer with low frequency roll-off filter on to produce warm, intimate sound.