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Posted by: news Tue 6 Jan 2004, 20:41

Comments about:

http://www.macmusic.org/news/view.php?lang=EN&id=1323

Posted by: BusError Tue 6 Jan 2004, 20:41

The Keystation 49 is a eKeys 49, NOT a MK-449C.

Posted by: guest_Ben Tue 6 Jan 2004, 21:27

Finally apple has realized that pro and semi-pro audio is a market they should be in. I have been waiting for a low-cost, musician friendly, recording and composing application for years now and it looks as if Apple have delivered.

can't wait to give it a try.

Posted by: peterkirn Tue 6 Jan 2004, 22:58

Agreed, though why are they billing this as a pro app? Us pros are already using DP, PT, Logic . . . guess it's just marketing speak?

Will pros use it? Well, absolutely. The same as we use iDVD, iMovie, etc., etc.! Okay, perhaps I've answered my question.

Posted by: wlevin Wed 7 Jan 2004, 01:20

It is great that GarageBand includes http://nav.440network.com/out.php?mmsc=forums&url=http://www.apple.com/ilife/garageband/play.html! Any word if these virtual instruments are AudioUnits, and if so, can they be used by other comparable applications like http://nav.440network.com/out.php?mmsc=forums&url=http://www.apple.com/software/pro/logic/?

I'm kinda' jealous that my expensive Logic didn't include the same nice sounding samples that Apple threw into GarageBand, part of a $49 iLife suite

Posted by: donglai Wed 7 Jan 2004, 02:28

my burning question is does GarageBand support Firewire audio interfaces?

Posted by: vacationland Wed 7 Jan 2004, 02:54

Any word yet if GarageBand supports Firewire audio interfaces? Does Soundtrack?

Posted by: guest_Blamm Wed 7 Jan 2004, 03:57

Does anyone know if GarageBand (or even Soundtrack for that matter) supports ReWire? I'm guessing "no" since they're trying to fill that same niche, but it would be nice to still be able to use my Reason bits.

Posted by: a_rhythmic Wed 7 Jan 2004, 06:34

Apple really seems to be spreading their audio assets far and wide with this addittion. It would be nice to see them consolidate the technology into Soundtrack and focus on adding real pro level features (ala REX/Rewire Support, a true mixing GUI, etc.). IMHO, Soundtrack 2.0 should have been the announcement, oh and we added AU Instruments/Synths and a record button....sounds logical (pun)...and the price could be reduced with a reduced sample set (LE version). They are most likely licensed samples anyway, demanding the bulk of the cost.

Their approach, though, has added several ideas to the audio world that are long overlooked in their excellent sample browser and the use of metadata. The Loop tuner would be a healthy alternative to Recycle if the app could support REX format, too.

They have all the makings for an effective Pro-loop based arrangement tool that could compete with Live and Reason. Seemless integration to the Logic environment would make a compelling package , standalone for others whose needs are in the Video market and an LE for the kids.

Posted by: 1kirsch Wed 7 Jan 2004, 07:12

$49?

I'm in.

I already have soundtrack and FCP...

I'm still in...java script:emoticon(':D')

Posted by: dnigrin Wed 7 Jan 2004, 18:02

It doesn't need ReWire - Jack Tools is here!

http://nav.440network.com/out.php?mmsc=forums&url=http://www.jackosx.com

Cheers!

Posted by: guest_Jason Wed 7 Jan 2004, 21:45

I don't think their going to make Garageband so great that it would compet with their leading pro audio (Logic). I didn't read anything about "universal" plugins like AU, RST, etc. It just mentioned a few "preset" effects like the guitar amps, etc..

I think it is a great program, especially for the price and it fills a middle market for those who don't want to spend the money, time, desire to jump to Logic/PT.

Even with that said, the whole midi virtual instrument thing was amazing and that alone i think makes the product worth 50 bucks.

Posted by: wlevin Wed 7 Jan 2004, 22:06

Yes! The Virtual Instruments are a nice deal. What I'd like to know is, if I buy a new Mac that comes with GarageBand, can I use my Emagic Logic to access that wonderful bank of 50 GarageBand Virtual Instruments? Maybe they are contained in an AudioUnit that any AU compliant software (like Logic) can access. That $50K Grand Piano, Acoustic Bass, and Drum Kit sounded really nice. Logic only comes with three virtual FM synth modules, but no included sample playback!

Posted by: NeutrixX Thu 8 Jan 2004, 00:35

I don't think you guys really understand how big of a deal GarageBand is (and I mean to paid musicians whom already own pro audio software). I produce downtempo electro-acoustic psychedelic (bassy breaks stuff) tracks for a local label with Reason, Ableton Live and Logic, but none are as sweet (or should I say organic) looking as GarageBand for recording and editing tracks (Reason actually looks quite good for a synth/sampler/effects rack : yet visually lacks when one is editing within the track mode). Why should I even mention to you how good looking GarageBand is? Why you say? Simple. If it excites me to work with a good looking peice of software - which I admit - it does very much (appealing to my eye - with incredible ease of use and superior workflow), it will inevitably inspire my work. And if it inspires my work, in any sort of creative way, I would gladly pay far more than the small price of $49 for it! Now granted, it does not do all the things that Live, Reason or Logic does, but by the looks of it.... I think it will do what it does better than anything else I've seen. GarageBand should be able to listen to (and record in stereo, I believe) a firewire enabled piece of hardware (like Yamaha's brand new o1x) with the knobs controlling any enabled AudioUnit plugins (in real-time of course). Will the AudioUnit capability within GarageBand allow me to use mastering plugins (not to mention 5.1 mixing)? How many AudioUnit plugins can run in real time while simply monitoring (or recording) my 12 String & vocals? Can you pre-record midi to the AudioUnit plugin effects while monitoring guitar or vocals while jamming to a pre-recorded piece (to provide dub-like capabilities)? Will GarageBand listen to more than one midi device at any given time (keyboards, mixer & envelope pedals)?
Obviously I’m not sure on some of these paticular details, but I’ll find out soon enough. I must remind myself this is Apple’s first release of this product, and updates will inevitably follow!

The fact it will seemlessly integrate with Soundtrack (when scoring within FCP 4), plays and records at 24bit 96khz (I think – haven’t found the pdf on it yet – Soundtrack does - so GarageBand should), uses AudioUnits, comes with a large amount of high quality (better than CD quality) samples (some of the best I’ve ever heard by the way) and comes with 100 software instruments… well… it’s a steal (to say the least) at $49. Comparable software goes for hundreds of dollars more (not to mention the fact you get to upgrade your iDVD/ iMovie/ iPhoto as well). Not to mention the interface of those other apps are half as clean (re: slick) as GarageBand. Just check out the detailed “wood” side panels on the main mixer window. Don’t you think it adds a warm touch? I like details like that. Thank you Apple!

I’ll be buying it… I’ll also be upgrading to the “Jampack” available for it as well.
GarageBand is the start of something incredible, for professional and amateur musicians alike…

End of story.

P.S. - By the way, the difference between Soundtrack (which I've used) and Garageband is GarageBand will listen to (and record) midi signals, and has more editing features (along with virtual/software instruments). It will work seemlessly with Soundtrack when one is working with a FCP4 project. You would first do your composing within GarageBand (you could even use your Soundtrack loops if you wanted - 1000's are available with FCP4), then you would import your entire composition into Soundtrack - for final sequencing within the project that you're working on inside FCP4! GarageBand is far more powerful for creating original compositions than Soundtrack, but you will use Soundtrack within FCP4 to sync it up to your video timeline. Apple has hit another home run!

Posted by: guest_Tim Thu 8 Jan 2004, 02:43

How does anyone know what the editing capabilities of GarageBand are? The web site doesn't mention anything about editing MIDI, accessing CC data, etc. It only talks about building pieces by playing in MIDI data (no step entry method mentioned) or recording in audio, or using the included loops. There are no screen shots of any editing windows or tools. Is there support for building songs from sequences?

If a user is not able to edit MIDI data, then I don't believe it will be of any interest to anyone who uses any of the pro or hobbyist apps that currenty exist in terms of MIDI sequencing.

It seems unlikely that it is that limited, but how can anyone know in the absence of any other information?

Tim

Posted by: Ron Thu 8 Jan 2004, 09:02

Well, the way iDVD finally transformed DVD Studio Pro, I would bet that Logic7 will be transformed by Garageband

Posted by: braj Thu 8 Jan 2004, 09:19

You hit the nail on the head for me. I'm wondering if you can import aiffs, midi files, etc. I'm wondering if you can use any AU (how about someone make an AU drum machine for GarageBand? Or a pattern sequencer?)

I can see it really taking off if it will allow this sort of manipulation. Even if it is bare-bones itself, if it does allow full AU support, it could be a really powerful tool.

To what degree it can be 'upgraded' will be interesting to see. Regardless, I ordered mine to go along with Metro SE (which I bought only last week!) Hopefully I can find a way to get lots of value from both products.

That said, Garageband has the best basic UI of any Midi sequencer I've ever seen. That in itself is a huge +.

Posted by: dixiechicken Thu 8 Jan 2004, 10:06

Garageband should work just fine with external fw-interfaces.
(my MOTU-828 so far works with every application I've tried it)

Cheers: Dixiechicken

Posted by: braj Thu 8 Jan 2004, 10:41

The more I think about it, the more I am feeling this will be a very big deal for pro music on the Mac. From Apple's site:

"And that’s only the tip of the iceberg. GarageBand’s Audio Unit support allows you to add hundreds of effects and recording tools."

It looks like you can use http://nav.440network.com/out.php?mmsc=forums&url=http://www.fxpansion.com/product-auadapter-main.php to get VST synths (including drum machines) into GarageBand. With that, the possibilities are endless. Garageband could prove to be a great hub where you plug in lots of different media. Here's hoping anyway.

Posted by: Bass2001 Thu 8 Jan 2004, 13:11

http://nav.440network.com/out.php?mmsc=forums&url=http://www.apple.com/ilife/garageband/loops.html contains the comment "Software loops let you edit individual notes and even change the playback instrument" which presumably also means that you can change other parameters and create new loops from scratch (maybe saving individual loops for future use?), though I haven't yet found a screenshot that shows this functionality. Apple has several Macs set up with GarageBand at the Expo and I'm hoping that someone will post screenshots that feature the loop note editor.

I agree that GarageBand is a very exciting software package in terms of its uncluttered interface coupled with its low cost and expansion potential via plugins; the sound quality of the supplied instruments far surpasses something like FruityLoops on the PC (based on the Expo demo) and a future release of Logic based on the GarageBand interface should be awesome. (The Beatles are likely to be really upset by all of this!)

Posted by: bboyj Thu 8 Jan 2004, 13:21

I'm looking forward to getting it. I used to record on Cubasis 2, which did pretty much everything I needed it to do, but since it doesn't work on OS X, I've been waiting for a good (cheap!) app to come along.

I couldn't find any mention of MIDI output which is a shame 'cos I've got some nice bits of kit sat next to me. If we keep our fingers crossed they might upgrade it in the future. Looks good too.

One complaint though - GARAGEBAND? What kind of name is that? That has to be the worse names ever for a piece of software. What about iStudio, or iTrax or something even remotely credible. I know Jobs is a bit of an old hippy, and the US doesn't have the same sort of dance music culture as Europe, but dear oh dear...

Posted by: jess_sp Thu 8 Jan 2004, 13:24

Yay, no one is sure of the feautures of the GarageBand and as Bass2001 said we should wait to got some information from :love:Expo, but it sounds like a great software and every musician should try it out, as it's not so expensive.

And it's obvius that Apple didn't released many information so that people like us keep on talking about... It's all marketing...

Posted by: Gnuus Thu 8 Jan 2004, 19:04

Why is Garageband not a free download?

Posted by: jess_sp Thu 8 Jan 2004, 19:14

I guess that Apple wants to sell it in iLife to make more popular the other softwares in the bundle. GarabeBand will surely be more popularthan the other softwares, and will make people that would never buy, e.g, an iPhoto, try it and use it.

Steve Jobs, am I right?!

Posted by: stellarSYNTH Fri 9 Jan 2004, 04:33

Hi Tim,
I understand your reluctance, and my comments are not focused directly on your comments but also to spark another question.
I saw the demo of GarageBand live via a streaming web feed. Steve Jobs who is admittedly not a musician began dragging and dropping loops into the arrange window and within a minute or two had a little song going on. He did this the same way anyone would do it by moving around the segments and making them longer or shoter. If you mean having the abiliity to go in and do a note by note edit...I am not sure. It is a new app. but I feel it is based on eMagic technology since Apple acquired them about two years ago. When I saw the debut of SoundTrack, I thought this is what they wanted with eMagic, but they've done more.
It was wonderful to see this simplicity, and I will probalby rely on the loops some too. New tracks can be recorded just like any sequencer software you might have used.
What is not clear to me is if there will be a way for GarageBand to interface with my existing studio rack instruments or trigger other keyboards, if it will...then I am in heaven. Otherwise the external instrument can be used to record digital audiop and loops can be built in that way.
Right now there ARE a lot of unanswered questions, but like lots of other people who saw the Expo demo..I am very excited. As soon as the feed ended, I went to the Apple site and made my purchase and also ordered the JamPack add ons.
I've been using various sequencing packages and some of my MIDI instruments are approaching 20 years old. So, I also ordered the 49e controller. One of my previous keyboard controllers did not offer velocity sensitivity on send, and the one that did was so big and bulky in my working environment. The next day...I cancvelled the order for the 49e and went seomwehre else and ordered the Oxygen8.
I just hope this forum stays alive. I am very excited.

Posted by: braj Fri 9 Jan 2004, 04:43

I would imagine this forum (and this site) will get a lot busier because of GarageBand. That's how I got here. I had visited a few times, but finally registered when I got excited about GB.

Posted by: wlevin Fri 9 Jan 2004, 04:51

I wouldn't be surprised if the whole reason Apple acquired Emagic was just so they could port their Logic code into a cool creative music application for the masses, a.k.a. GarageBand.

After all, that's the reason they acquired NeXT ... so they could port their code into Mac OS X. They also ported Steve Jobs back, too

Posted by: stellarSYNTH Fri 9 Jan 2004, 05:44

When I heard about the eMagic acquisition, the idea of Apple making some kind of consumer MIDI app was what I thought they were after. Then SoundTrack came out and I thought that was going to be it.
I was hoping something like this would happen, but I had forgotten about it.
I have a friend in Germany who was very chagrined when eMagic was sold to Apple. He had been using their notation software for almost 15 years and one of the first things Apple did was drop support for the PC. Or maybe they didn't. He felt it was a small tradgedy...I'm not sure if eMagic still develops for PC, I see PC stuff on their site...I just don't know if it's up to date.
I just hope Apple pursues GarageBand and develops it as nicely as they have iPhoto or iTunes. I hope it will have external MIDI support...but I don't expect it right away.
heh...but iTunes used to be SoundJam too.

Posted by: guest_Drumpoet Fri 9 Jan 2004, 08:01

Thousands of samples take up a few Gigabytes. Do you have unlimited freetime and bandwith to download all that?

And who doesn't like to make a bit of money on the side?

I say kudos! And I look forward to having it in my grubby little hands! Though I'll probably get my first glimpse of it at the NAMM Show as I'll be away from home by the time its delivered.

Posted by: Guest Fri 9 Jan 2004, 08:11

Here's what really strikes me about the whole GB idea:

Creating an environment where music making is more accessible.

To me, that's a great concept. Sure, there's a lot of folks who are "Pros" and "Amatuers", but it seems a bigger deal to me when you can involve a lot more people who have never really experienced the satisfaction of playing or making music.

Here's an epiphany:

Think of all the great music you make with your gear now. Now think about what it would be like if all you ever did was just listen.

Digital photography, video productions... sure I don't know as much as the Pros, but I can at least have just as much fun in the creation process. But coming from the standpoint of a professional musician, think of how amazing this can be if Apple is able to turn some of those "just listeners" into music makers.

That's it for me.

Posted by: drumpoet Fri 9 Jan 2004, 08:18

Sorry... That was one too many epiphany's. The system kept asking for my login but didn't verify that I had posted.

My bad.

Posted by: guest_Dave Fri 9 Jan 2004, 09:53

Because Apple wanted to piss you off...

Think about it... Do you work for free? Do you have rent or a house payment to make?

Well Apple has people that work for them that write code that is very useful to all of us.
They have mortgages or rent to pay, families to feed.
Damn, I don't ever recall Apple being a NON PROFIT Organization...
Grow up.

Posted by: IanB Fri 9 Jan 2004, 10:13

I personally feel Apple are trying to move Logic into more of it's own brand. I think this release of Garageband will eventually evolve into the new Logic.
The fact they pulled logic from the PC market will have anoyed a lot of PC musicians and I believe a full rebranding and repackaging of such a successful product will help further Apples grip on glbal domination.
They want to be big, and they have every right to be. They make the best products and market them to the people who need them the most.

I can't wait to find something that allows my creativity to flow easier and quicker.

Posted by: Bass2001 Fri 9 Jan 2004, 13:26

Anyone wanting to know more about GarageBand can take a look at the http://nav.440network.com/out.php?mmsc=forums&url=http://discussions.info.apple.com/WebX?14@28.aw4WavA1rm7.0@.599f0139 of the Apple Forum; in particular http://nav.440network.com/out.php?mmsc=forums&url=http://discussions.info.apple.com/WebX?14@191.8v2Ca82UrbK.0@.599f1710 which has some more information about what GarageBand can and cannot do. (I still haven't found any screenshots yet that feature MIDI note editing.)

Overall I'm still impressed with GarageBand despite its limitations, though a full review will no doubt reveal even more.

Posted by: peterkirn Fri 9 Jan 2004, 14:48

Trust me, I'll be taking an in-depth look at Garage Band the day it arrives, so stay tuned.

I'm a little nervous about what Apple may NOT have supported, just given their history with iLife. I certainly think it'll support any CoreAudio hardware, however. We'll see what they've done. I just hope they don't cripple it to try to sell more copies of Logic, because I think truthfully they'll boost sales of Mac and Logic by making it as full-featured as they can.

We'll see in just a few short days!

Posted by: kaboombahchuck Fri 9 Jan 2004, 18:23

I just came from the Apple Store, and it will not be in the stores or be shipped untill the 16th.... man am I bummed.

Posted by: guest_sduke Fri 9 Jan 2004, 20:39

For GarageBand do I need a G4 600Mhz or faster. On the Apple Website its G3 600Mhz or faster. Someone please clarify...

Posted by: bighairycellar Fri 9 Jan 2004, 22:05

You need at least a 600 MHz G4 to use the software instruments. It says so in the system requirements.

Posted by: stellarSYNTH Sat 10 Jan 2004, 00:12

Yeah, that's right. I'm trying to separate out in my mind the distinction. The info page says G3/600, and G4-G5/600 for the software instruments. It would be a bummer to be stuck with just the MIDI instruments, but I quess it could be done with a G3/600.
I was looking at the info page again. Some of the instruments play as MIDI info and others are audio samples. It just isn't clear to me which is which during use right now. I suppose there will be some kind of icon to distinquish between the two. The built in loops may all be audio samples. Steve Jobs mentioned that some of the drum loops were done by a famous Motown drummer, but he didn't mention the name.

The ordering page has all the nitty gritty.
http://nav.440network.com/out.php?mmsc=forums&url=http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore?productLearnMore=M9364LL/A

Posted by: drumpoet Sat 10 Jan 2004, 01:06

They bumped my delivery date up to the 15th

Posted by: Dom Martin Sat 17 Jan 2004, 20:42

Yes. It seems to work on my M-Audio FW 410 though I'm still suffering a latency problem on OSX.

Posted by: closet PC user Sat 7 Feb 2004, 07:26

I work for "the man" and he hasn't figured out that MAC/APPLE is the future...so I'm using a PC...however...I'm excited about "GarageBand" - any word that this product will be available for PC users?

Posted by: lepetitmartien Sat 7 Feb 2004, 13:48

No word at all… and save iTunes Apple maintains a desert for a reason… Also, PCs have a bunch of softs in the same sibling. It wouldn't be an easy move.

Posted by: peterkirn Sat 7 Feb 2004, 15:59

If I were on a PC, I'd probably pick up something like Fruity Loops, instead: http://nav.440network.com/out.php?mmsc=forums&url=http://www.fruityloops.com/

It lacks GarageBand's simplicity and elegance, but it also does a whole lot GB won't do, even in FL's lighter versions.

And if it's the looping capabilities you're excited about, and you want realtime live looping, go with Ableton Live. Yes, it's $200 more expensive than GB. But if you want to experiment in realtime, improvisationally, with loops, Live is your only choice -- and it's cross-platform.

Posted by: stellarSYNTH Sat 7 Feb 2004, 17:28

Apple has become very savvy about what things it ports to the PC side. So far, it has only been iTunes which is a way for Apple to sell songs and perhaps iPods to PC users. Steve Jobs has already been quoted as saying that "Selling music on line is not a way for Apple to make money, but it is a great way to sell iPods." and Apple has some very ambitious plans for the iPod becoming a premier mp3 player in both worlds. Check the news boards about HP and Apple wokring a deal for HP to bundle iTunes on all of their new computers and selling iPods in a special "HP Blue" color.

If GarageBand were ported to the PC...PC's users wouldn't have a reason to buy a Mac. Hate to be so blunt about it, but Apple has this issue about selling hardware.

Posted by: braj Sat 7 Feb 2004, 21:18

Since Apple stopped Windows development of Logic, I'm pretty sure there will never be a Windows version of GarageBand.

Posted by: GM Sat 14 Feb 2004, 04:30

I think GarageBand is an amazing app, however, if you don't own a keyboard, you have to stick to the loops. I would suggest that you get the keyboard, THEN JamPack, because you only get a few thousand more loops, whereas with a Piano-like interface, you can create your own. There are hundreds of instruments to choose from, and the keyboard adapts to each one, assigning a not/sound to each key.

GM

Posted by: Guest Wed 28 Jul 2004, 01:58